Aug 212009

Bell has a long post up about elitism at 4Haelz, which inspired this post.

First, /signed. Second, I understand completely where she’s coming from. As someone who has limited playtime, I like to maximize  what I can do in that time. Yesterday was good…two heroics in a bit under two hours (including a break while the daily popped). Day before; 1.5 hours in H Oculus, didn’t finish. Frustrating. Pretty much, here’s my standards:

  • Hardmode (not that I do them, due to time): Fully enchanted/gemmed/glyphed/flasked/foodbuffed (only the best), best gear possible, willingness to change out gearsets/talents for better raid buffs/composition, ability to stay out of fire 95% of the time, excellent skill at assigned role.
  • Prog raid: Fully enchanted/gemmed/glyphed/flasked/foodbuffed (second-tier enhancements okay), good gear, proper talents, ability to stay out of fire 90% of the time, good skill.
  • Farm raid: Mostly enchanted/gemmed/glyphed, reasonable talents, ability to stay out of fire 80% of the time, okay gear, okay skill.
  • Heroic: Don’t be bad, know that fire is not pretty.
  • All: Good attitude (or silence), ask questions if you don’t understand something, be reliable (random long afk’s are bad).

I don’t think those standards are elitist. Pretty much, if you don’t meet those standards, your raid will fail to complete the objective, which wastes everyone’s time and drains morale. The difficulty I’ve run into as a raidleader is telling people they don’t meet standards in a way that inspires them to get better, not quit.

On a related note, I also don’t really have a grudge against people who ask for overly high standards for PUG groups. (i.e. full Epic for Naxx, etc.). By doing so, you’re trading group formation time for a better chance that you’ll clear the instance, which is never a bad thing. I think it’s misguided (those groups usually never fill, and even when they do, half of them are either achievement fakers or people for whom gear != skill), but I’m not opposed.

  9 Responses to “Standards vs. elitism”

  1. Thanks for the response! Those are pretty good standards, and definitely not elitist. And it’s great you try to inspire people positively; that’s probably something I should have brought up.

  2. Hi, Alaron! Yep, I do see where you are coming from, but it does bother me a great deal when I see someone set over-powered standards for an instance. Yes, I understand they want to be sure people know the content and can handle it, but too much is too much, a lot of the time.

    When I first leveled my rogue alt, took her into heroics, 10-naxx, then 25-naxx, and had a fine set of epics and fairly good rogue skills. I did it all on pugs and casual runs, as alts don’t run in the progression guild runs.

    It took me over a week to find someone willing to take her into a VoA… because SHE did not have the achievement. *I* know the fight, I’d healed it many times, I know what the melee dps has to do in it, but no one was willing to allow her in until she had done it! Finally, I found one guy who talked to me… asked if I knew the fight and I was able to say yes, this is my alt, I’ve been in it many times, and Voila!, VoA is done finally.

    There are LOTS of alts out there, and experienced, knowledgeable, skilled people sitting behind them. They shouldn’t be penalized because it’s an alt. Talk to people, check out the person as well as the toon. In the same time it takes to eliminate several people not deemed geared-enough when you glance at them, you can talk to one or two and find they will be quite the asset to the group.

    • @Kayeri- I know exactly what you’re talking about. Storytime: I once had a guildy complain in gchat about a 25M Sarth+0PUG that the RL was requiring full Epic for. So, I logged on my lock (mix of Naxx-10 and blues, even one green) and with a bit of achievement fakery, got into the PUG, and proceeded to be 3rd DPS on Sarth…then was all like “oh btw I’m still in blues heh.” :)
      Maybe I didn’t make my disagreement clear enough in the post. When I RL PUG Emalon raids (VOA, typically) I have a very simple system:
      1. Are the tanks geared?
      2. Do we have enough healers?
      3. Go.
      No achievement checking, no gear checking except on tanks. Now, if we wipe, I’m all over Recount to find out why, and low DPS will start getting kicked…but I give everyone, regardless of gear/ach’s, at least one opportunity. I’ve only had one failed PUG raid, where someone (who I have no problem calling “elitist”) decided I was a bad RL, tried to give his own orders, and then ORDERED all his guild members in the raid to bail. It was pretty funny, too, and I wish I’d saved a chat log. Dude was like “Knights of the Flame(made up), we are withdrawing from this raid!” and everyone was like wtf…but yeah, that one fell apart. /endramble

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