Oct 112010

UPDATE: There’s been some significant hotfixes since I wrote this. Please visit my full 4.0.1 Feral DPS guide for the most up-to-date info.

4.0.1 will (presumably) drop tomorrow. Here’s what you need to know for your two remaining months at level 80.

(If you’re looking for bear info, Kalon’s got you covered, as he usually does.)

Talent Spec:

Cat DPS: 0/33/3. (wowhead talent link)

I’ve focused heavily on survivability and utility over marginal DPS talents; hence the inclusion of Brutal Impact and Nurturing Instinct, and the exclusion of Stampede and Predatory Strikes. Feel free to switch those points around if you’d like.

Cat/Bear Hybrid: 0/32/3, one point free to get Feral Aggression or Stampede 1/2. (wowhead talent link)

In order to run a hybrid spec, you lose a lot of utility. This spec is the best compromise I can come up with; 1-2% DPS loss and less cat survivability, but fully tanking capable.


Majors: Rip and Shred are clearly superior; the third choice is much less clearcut. Savage Roar is probably the best, but Tiger’s Fury and Berserk are pretty close. A hybrid spec could fit a bear glyph here, such as Mangle, if desired. Update: My intuition is that the TF and possibly Berserk glyphs are better than the SR glyph now, but more testing is needed.

Primes: Only one I’ll say is mandatory is Faerie Fire; after that, take your pick. The Ferocious Bite glyph is interesting, however. With perfect play at 80, it’s better to not have it, but if you regularly bite then have trouble refreshing Rip/Rake/SR, then it’s a good choice. At 85, it may be much more useful. We’ll have to see how it plays out.

Minors: Take your pick, though I’d definitely recommend Dash.

Stats (Gemming/Reforging):

ArPen is gone. Anything ArPen you had will become crit. Reforge/regem to meet the new hit/exp caps…caps have gone down slightly for 80, but the loss of Primal Precision means much less expertise. (New expertise cap is 200 rating/26 expertise; hitcap is 246.) Once you’ve  reached hit/exp cap, gem agility (yes, even if you’re at critcap, the AP + yellow crit is best) and reforge mastery. (Yes, that means we’re back to Blackened Dragonfin as our consumable…hello, 3.0.) Update: Lots of questions about whether it’s better to go all +agi gems and forgo socket bonuses or not. It’s marginal. Right now, I think all +agi is superior, but more testing is needed. Either way, reforging to hit/exp/mastery is still your best bet.


Update: No longer true; new buffs have fixed the nerfs, but final numbers still being worked out.

DPS sucks at the moment. If you were crushing everyone before, you won’t be now. Overall DPS loss looks to be in the 20-25% range, putting our DPS (with best gear) in the 10k range (14k for ICC). This is down from the 14k (18k for ICC) that top ferals were getting. Yes, this sucks; no, it probably won’t get fixed unless it persists to 85, which looks likely at this point. It’s not just us…any class that was dependent on ArPen took a big nerf, though ours was arguably the worst.

Anything I forgot? Post a comment and let me know.

 Posted by at 8:21 am

  249 Responses to “Kitty DPS in 4.0.1”

  1. I’m not expecting help till probably 4.1 for kitties. Blizzard tries to not over-buff, and I expect they want to give it plenty of time to make sure no one finds a ‘magic’ rotation that gets the proper DPS they intend.

  2. […] Kitty DPS in 4.0.1 – by the ever talented Alaron over at the Fluid Druid. […]

  3. […] (cat) – your best bet for feral kitty is Alaraon’s Fluid Druid post. He’s giving some details on a 4.0.1 kitty talent spec option, what reforging means for moggies, and takes a look at glyphs. He also has […]

  4. […] Alaron at the Fluid Druid has cat info […]

  5. Why the 2 points in Nurturing Instinct?

    • From the post:

      “I’ve focused heavily on survivability and utility over marginal DPS talents; hence the inclusion of Brutal Impact and Nurturing Instinct, and the exclusion of Stampede and Predatory Strikes.”

      • Ah right. Well, Brutal Impact I’m gonna get, how I’ve waited for a kick button.
        But I’ve always felt NI was more a pvp stat. If I’m dying in a raid fight, I’m doing something wrong or wiping.

      • I’d agree with you, if so much of the damage in raid content wasn’t unavoidable.

        It’s also good for cat tanking, which I MAY have done from time to time, typically accidentally. :P

      • I was actually thinking about NI and heck, even Thick Hide. Part of me goes, if I can’t do great DPS, maybe I can do mediocre dps and backup heal or tank in a pinch and be a true hybrid. If nothing else, trying to do all that should up my raid awareness…

  6. We were gemming ArP what should we gem now? 10agi 10 haste or the 20 agi gems?

    I’m so confused and disapointed right now.

  7. I think the 20-25% is being too kind. The actual numbers are right around 50% lower DPS in ICC.

    • Eh, that bad, eh? I know things are bad, but I’ve heard that it’s bad for all melee atm (though we probably got the worst of it).

      • yea. it’s that bad. :(

        • I’ll have to see some numbers. I know a VERY good feral DPS who sent me a copy of his ICC logs pre-4.0 and post-4.0 for H Saurfang…he went from 17K to 13K. I think 50% is an exaggeration at this point.

          • I’m not a very good feral druid, but did some numbers tonight and I’d definitely say that 50% is an exaggeration at least in my part. I’ve invested quite a bit in mastery which meant that on trash where I wouldn’t have time for bleeds it was rubbish, but on bosses it worked out quite well and I even got to use the cower button :-)
            Still, we’ve probably lost 25% or so, but far from 50%.

  8. What is frustrating for me is that blizz said over and over again that they were going to make the kitty rotation, “less punishing.”

    Personally, I can’t think of a bigger punishment than cutting my dps in half… sigh… :(

  9. It kills me to say this, but I’d rather be the class that was clearly worst in DPS than third or fourth, as they’ll probably get fixed.

    Kinda sucks though that a 232-geared caster can outdps a 264-geared melee. I suspect that the combat rating changes are going to bite casters much harder then they will us, but I’m not sure that’s any consolation.

  10. after playing around, I would agree that 50% is a bit high. I am looking at about a 20-25% reduction. Still stings, tho.

  11. So Untill Cata we’re uselles. Have fun with 16x caster dps until december

  12. As you found in another thread there have been secret buffs going on by Blizz. The 50% numbers were based on late PTR results and did not include these buffs. From 10/13 raiding results things are getting better and we are getting closer to where we were.

    However, that has to be compared to the big numbers being put out by caster class dps. Even if we are right back at zero loss we will be behind since most other caster classes orginally got nice buffs (30%) or so. So even if nerfered we might still be on the last rung of the ladder with just the ladder rungs much closer together.

  13. OK i’m in all 277 gear except war token( can’t get Halion to help me out) We ran ICC25 last night and i got totally carried. I went from 19K H saurfang down to 13K. I reforged all my crit to mastery and gemmed agi in red slots. AGI/haste in yellow. And exp/hit in blue. With mastery my aoe sucks but so many other factors play into that(No Arp, no feral AP, and such). I see they buffed at midnight peope are reporting so what is the way to go now

  14. Hi, first time on this site and I must say I like it:)
    However, regarding your specc: I assume it’s a 100% pve specc, so whats with the 2/2 in brutal impact instead of Predatory Strikes? Ravage seems like a great opener to me now, as it had its dmg inscreased by what, 500% was it? You just feral charge in and pop it. Critted for 10k on my pvp geared lock friend.

    Other than that I actually went for TF instead of SR, mainly because our bleeds are so much better than our shred auto-attacks now, and with each point of mastery increasing this. Not done a lot of calculation on it, but no matter how you twist and turn it you will probably end up with more Rips under TF effect, and rakes aswell.

    For the % dps loss I find it hard to tell as I havent smashed the dummy pre-patch in ages, but on 10m saurfang I used to do just above 12k (25man normal geared+2 heroics, and not properly itemized since I left 25man raiding) Now I’m doing almost 8k on dummy which would be 10,4k in ICC without any raid buffs, flasks and food. So seems like less than 25%, with minor flaws on rotation and the 100% correct reforging to maybe bump it up a little more.

    Sorry for long rant, but I just found this site interesting and a proper place to vent ideas. (EJ forums is a little to heavy for me, I’ll get bashed since I don’t have a degree in wow calculations, and other places have trolls and haters) Keep it up!

    • No worries, keep the thoughts coming!

      Brutal Impact: Interrupts, mainly, for 10m groups and Valks on LK. You could easily switch it if you chose, but I prefer maximizing utility and survivability over crappy dps talents. (That said, if you’re respeccing on a fight-by-fight basis, Stampede/PS is great for something like LDW or Dreamwalker.)

      TF over SR: Very possibly true, especially with the new buffs to our yellow damage. I’ll have math up in a couple days.

      • Okey, I see your point about valkyrs IF it’s hm, still haven’t tried that on HM so don’t realy know how long they take to get down. But on normal it’s np without in my oppinion, ofc depending on your groups dps.

        I’m sure you’re busy here on this site, but surely you must have seen the buff we got last night (eu) by now? Our dps is as I saw it better than pre-patch now.

        Looking forward to see your calculations on TF vs SR

  15. after patch came out since feral kitties have low hit and expertise since it wasn’t essential i was at about 5kdps down from 7kish on dummy.. i went to reforge all crit stats into mastery and voila! 11.4k dps unbuffed on dummy mastery is the shit i got +60% damage on bleeds

  16. I have a minimally geared lvl 72 kitty…not sure actually about gear…I just equip was seems to work best, but I’m on Winterhoof and you can search for my name and have found a significant *increase* in my dps/total damage.

    I was averaging around 650 and jumped to over 850 dps.

    More importantly, and a more precise measure of damage dealt, my total damage % went from 18%-20% to 25%-35% depending on tank and other dps classes.

    As far as casters are concerned, with AOE their dps will always be high, but their total damage was on par with mine.

    Don’t focus solely on dps…I can have (and have had) dps at 1300 for a fight. If I don’t fight the rest of an instance, my dps is still going to read 1300, but my total % of damage will suck…

    • Hmm not realy sure what you are saying here mate.
      When we talk about dps we talk single target fights ofcourse, not overalls. Not sure WHEN you jumped to 850, but there is no doubt what so ever that feral damage (on all attacks) and dps got nerfed, and then I mean realy nerfed. And most casters did get buffed.
      I don’t care about AoE but there is no doubt that it was nerfed aswell, it hits for maybe 50% of what it used to.
      You can’t realy discuss whether feral was nerfed based on a low levels dps, because it’s not balanced around that. But a lot of people also forget that it’s not properly balanced around 80 either now, it’s 85 they have in mind now.

      TL;DR: Dps was nerfed a lot, now they buffed it again and it should be higher than before patch.

      • Gotcha. I’m only lvl 72 *and* just got recount working again last night, so I can’t talk about it before then.

        I’ve read that recount’s dps readings can be skewed based on the formula it uses so I consider overall dmg.

        Most importantly, I’m only really concerned with damage in instances so that’s why I consider my overall damage instead fight to fight dps, since my overall contribution is what counts there.

    • Okay i may only be a LV 36 kitty but my DPS has jumped HUGELY. I was getting waxed by 41 thrashtails in stranglethorn vale before the update. Since 4.1 now I murder them in 3-5 seconds. My max crit was about 250dam, and now it is about 450dam and i can spam out ravage even faster than before with the updated energy regen. I even wiped out the 41 elite mob in the area without having to transform and heal once. Higher levels may get nerfed slightly but for grinding i couldnt be happier.

  17. yup guys, at the moment i saw the 4.0.1 on my kitty preety sad, changing all gems and, and changing my weapon was a big dramastic change for me.

    Today was a big day for kittys, boost on the damage, preety damn good!


  18. Any suggestions for those of us who don’t instance or raid, but just want a spec for dailies/soloing?

    I’ve picked what look like useful talents, but am mainly going on intuition instead of numbers.

    • The spec linked will work fine for dailies/soloing. Really, with the new talent trees, you can’t mess up too much.

  19. […] level 80, but you can jerry-rig a serviceable spec out of the 36 talent points we do have. Alaron recently published a recommended spec of 0/33/3 at The Fluid Druid and I tend to agree with his (and Kalon’s) assessment […]

  20. Hello. I’m curious to see what everyone is doing w/ gemming. specifically Yellow & Blue sockets. I currently play a bear, but as of the patch I’m considering cat DPS.

  21. Ok I’ve been running a split feral/resto dual spec for a while and it suddenly seems like I am missing an attack for my cat rotation. I feel like an idiot for not being able to remember it after like 2 days but I remember the yellow icon, combo point add and like 30 second cool down.

    But my point is that it seems like Blizz pushed more into the feral Bear focus than the cat.

    • Umm…Tiger’s Fury? It’s yellow and has a 30s CD…doesn’t generate cp though…

      And, yes, feral cats didn’t get a lot of new toys this expansion.

  22. Hi Alaron,

    Just a short question/doubt.

    Does Nurturing instinct increases in 20% the healing we get from Leader of the Pack? If so its a great talent for over all use be it raiding, questing and the obvious adavntage in PVP, can you confirm that?

    • Yes, it does increase LOTP healing, but only in catform.
      (It works with hots too…so you can load yourself up with hots in caster, then go cat and all your hots will get the boost.)

  23. If read this a few times it really helped me.

    Altho I am a lil confused about the stats after the patch can anyone help me with it?

    Hit cap is now 246
    Exp cap is now 26
    What about haste and Crit?

    My haste is now 587

    Most of my crit if reforged to mastery
    So my crit is now 68%
    And my mastery is 13.93%

    Need to test it out tho but I can use a lil help on crit,haste and mastery..

    Or mayby even lose the mastery and get higher crit again..


    • I would say reforge most of your haste to mastery aswell. White damage is realy weak now (from 30%++ og dmg to 17%) I tried 5 min on dummy without SR up at all, and it only decreased my dmg by 1k (out of nearly 11k) So basically haste lost half of its appeal. By reforging all haste to mastery you will still have enough for OOC (dude, you have loads o.O) and your bleeds will be a lot better.

      If you have HWT I would say swap it out for now, I went back to wispering fanged skull (even tho DW is a solid option now, just cba to pug toc for less than 2 months of content that doesn’t matter much anymore)

  24. Your Savage Roar and Tiger’s Fury links under Glyphage are both Glyph of Mangle.

    HATE the changes. Hate the healing changes. Hate the feral cat changes. Wish I had leveled a gd mage.


  25. What do your cat bars look like? Whats the new rotation?

    • I have not read any theorycrafting etc so I may have some errors. But I go:(feral charge)- ravage-mangle-rake-(shred if not at 5p)-TF-rip. Some fast shreds-FB. Then on the next rotation I put Savage Roar up. After that your rips should come off close to your TF cooldown (if you specced TF glyph which I reccomend, SR is realy not that important anymore) so you pop TF before each rip, unless you screw up somewhere. (as in dont wait 15 seconds for TF to come off while spamming shreds). You should get a lot of FBs in between the rips and the SR’s, and after 25% make sure you have a rip up and just start FBing until dead.

  26. I have probably what is going to be the dumbest question ever but I have to try. I have been looking everywere for somewere that will tell me what my kitties stats should look like. I mean what is the mastery cap or what should I be looking for, from reading I am getting that crit is less important then agil (which is confusing as they replaced all my arm pen with crit.) but over all I would like to see some numbers so i know what to strive for. STR…AGIL…CRIT….MASTERY… sorry to be such a noob I’ve been away for awhile and the patch seems to have completely confused me.

  27. I just returned after a good break just over 2months. I wasn’t bis but i must have had 2nd bis armor, weapon, trinkets and the rest was bis.
    So dummy testing is all i got to go from as im not raiding. Have not regemmed to agil as yet simply want to test and compare first with these fugly crit gems. Also have not reforged. Using Mew unbuffed it said i should pull 9.4K dps i can pull 9.2K steady for 10mins. So question is what are you bis slot guys pulling regemmed and reforged to agil and mastery?

    • There was a thread on this on my forums…I think 11-12k for BIS (which is definitely not me).

      • That seems low. I was pulling 11 – 12k tonight on XT, and my only 277 is my Ashen Verdict ring, the rest is 264 or less.

      • thxs for reply, i did regem agil and agil + crit (not crit capped) and took all of my haste which i had alot of to mastery 220 atm, also reforged some hit and expertise to cap which i wasn’t quite.
        Dummy testing i can pull over 11K selfbuffed with FF on target after 10mins dps it drops to 10700 dps seems ok.

  28. Why would you not put the extra points in for Master Shapeshifter to get the 4% crit bonus? IMO that’s a fail.

  29. Guys i need help for knowing the crit , hit , agility , stamina caps of druid ..!!
    and also with rotations..!! (feral) ty.. ! and hope for a feedback .!

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