Nov 092010
 

There was a ton of excellent commentary on my previous post (which I encourage you to check out…Kalon wrote more in my comments in a day than he’s written on his blog in a month). As such, let me try to clarify a bit.

The Hybrid Spec…when would you use it?

I basically see three situations where having a hybrid CatBear spec (as opposed to a CatUtility spec, which I’d generally recommend) would be useful.

  1. The MT dies, and a fillin MT is needed. Typically, a tank death means a wipe in 10-man, and usually in 25-man. Raids don’t carry a “just-in-case” tank, and by the time the MT gets a rez, enough of the raid is dead that it doesn’t matter. (Either that, or it’s one of those bosses that splits his damage between two tanks or has a stacking debuff, which means your second tank is taking a ton of damage and dying quite quickly.)  Having a cat that can go bear can prevent this wholesale carnage by holding aggro on the boss, not dying immediately (by cooldown usage) and giving time for a MT rez and a healer adjustment. Obviously, in this scenario, you won’t be PLANNING on the tank dying, so you’ll be in your cat gear and glyphs. You won’t be an optimal tank, but you’re much better than anyone else. (I have an addon that gives me a distinct audio cue when the tank dies. I’ve trained myself to automatically go bear when I hear that, as I will typically be pretty high on the threat list anyway.)
    Now, opinons vary on the longterm viability of a CatBear emergency tank (say the rez already got used on the healer, so you’re all that’s left from 50%-0%). You’ll have less stamina than a regular tank does, because you won’t have tank trinkets/jewelry. You’ll take a bit more damage, because you won’t have the tanking meta. It’s not all bad, though- your avoidance will be slightly higher than a regular tank, because of your higher agility, and you shouldn’t have any problems with threat because you’re in DPS gear. In my mind, the viability of this is directly related to your raid’s level (norm/heroic), size, and encounter type. In a 25H, for example, simply because the boss outputs so much damage that you’ll likely die before your healers can adjust, and even if they do, you’re very susceptible to burst. In a 10M, surviving this is much more likely. Of course, if it’s a dragon fight that revolves around surviving burst, you’re likely dead anyway. (A lot of this thinking is based around LK health pools. If burst is less of a concern in Cata, then that makes a hybrid build more attractive.)
  2. A fight demands a temporary OT (adds, stacking debuff on MT, etc) and has a tight DPS requirement. These type of fights aren’t very common, but this is the perfect scenario for the CatBear spec. For an example, I remember reading about a world top10 10-strict guild who got their first kill of H Sindragosa by using a cat-specced druid tanking Sindy to let the debuff drop off the MT. (I want to say this was Kae’s guild, but I’m not sure.) I’ve deliberately been avoiding reading too many details about Cataclysm bosses, so I don’t know how many encounters will be similar to that.
  3. 5-man/entry-level-raid pugging. This is somewhat similar to point 1, but if you have a poor tank (or a tank leaves, etc), you can step in for them and tank without any interruption. You being somewhat sub-optimal is made up for the fact that you’re running non-progression content, and there’s a very real risk that the group/raid will disband if people have to wait for you to go respec. Of course, you could dual spec feral for this, which I’m not opposed to at all. I do like playing resto as well, however, and I’m ready to step in if we lose a healer (again, without needing to go run and respec, which can break a PUG).

Other than those situations, I’d prefer the CatUtility spec (or a full Bear spec, depending on the situation) I recommended in my feral DPS guide. As Kalon noted, porting to Moonglade to respec is pretty quick, so it takes hardly any time in an organized run to go optimize. Pretty much, as the content you’re attempting gets more difficult/specialized (N->H, 10->25, T11->T12->T13), the deficiencies of the hybrid build become more prevalent. Of course, this depends on your guild as well. If your tanks tend to die a lot, then you might want to consider it more (or go resto. :))

Personally, I’ll probably do the same thing I did for WOTLK; run a hybrid build for leveling/5-mans/entry-level raiding, then re-evaluate. (I think I re-specced to a full Cat build for the first time somewhere in Ulduar. Of course, I was in a much more casual guild then.) Once Rawr gets updated for Cata and we start to see some more complete gear information, I can actually get some hard numbers about the survivability of a fully specced/geared bear vs. a moonlighting cat.

 Posted by at 9:56 pm

  157 Responses to “Hybrid Hate: Part 2”

  1. Wow. I was going to write a BearCat hybrid guide once Cataclysm comes out, but that seems so irrelevant now.

    I am not currently now in the Beta, nor am I dinking around on the PTR, outside of playing with talent calculators, thanks to a last-minute rush to finish stuff before Cataclysm hits.

    If there are tank-swap fights with long periods of time between swaps, a la Festergut, BearCats *really* shine.

    As far as the utility vs. specialization argument goes, though, I am of the opinion that the utility provided by a hybrid spec *is* being able to DPS or Tank at the drop of a hat. Toe-may-toe, tuh-mah-toe, it’s utility, just of a different flavor.

    That being said, pre-4.0.1, wasn’t it pretty much a toss-up between the Shielded (formerly Effulgent) Skyflare Diamond and the Austere Earthsiege Diamond?

    I mean, if I had to consolidate my discrete Bear and Cat gear sets, I might go back to the Austere, but for the better part of ICC, I have been running with a Shielded, stacking straight stamina (and one Nightmare Tear), for general tanking.

  2. @Paona,

    I agree wrt. utility. I like how Blizz has done it- get your base DPS talents, then either pick up mobility (Stampede/PS), kitty utility/survivability (BI/NI/IW), or base bear (TH/NR/Pulv). Every talent has a use (except for Primal Madness, that thing sucks).

    For metas, yeah, tossup. I usually went Austere for my bear sets because, well, armor>all. I think. If I remember my rough math, the magic meta was more effective, but they about balanced out on average since you usually took more physical than magical damage.

  3. @someone in the last thread: agi and mastery are extremely good stats for bear as well as for cat. In a world of limited-mana healers (which is the reasonable assumption for Cataclysm) where tanks are not one-shot, stamina is a lot less interesting and mitigation/avoidance become better.

    As for why being an hybrid, the answer is simple: BECAUSE I CAN.

  4. It seems in my last comment I was confusing people. What I was trying to point out is that we need to analyze this from 2 different perspectives. The first being where you are normally the OT and the seond where you are normally a kitty dps.

    If you are OT the whole ‘tank dies’ thing is irrelevant to the discussion. You are a tank so hybrid can’t help. That only leaves the question if an extra 3% or so dps is worth giving up some talents in your OT spec. To me an druid who is always playing bear should never get the hybrid spec to gain a couple percentage in dps for the few times that 2 tanks aren’t needed. Unless I missed something that means the hybrid spec really only applies to a feral kitty that may need to tank.

    You mentioned 3 scenarios where it might be useful to go hybrid. I would expand scenario #2 to also include that the person who normally tanks your raids doesn’t show up for the night and you need top fill in.

    In the first scenario you are right in what you describe. But as Kalon pointed out the hero bear is kinda rare. Usually by the time the tank dies a good portion of the dps is also dead. And as for that rez, you can’t tank and cast a b-rez at the same time. So unless you have a lock and they change soulstone mechanics the tank never gets the rez if you end up tanking. Also, we have to be honest and admit that it is really hard to pull off the switch and save the day. Not that it doesn’t happen as my favorite example was me going bear in Naxx and with just a healer we killed that dancing boss guy where you had to move back and forth and avoid the lave bursts. It took 25 minutes to do.

    Now what might be interesting is if for your dual spec you had a primary (either all tank or all dps talents) and then in your off-spec you had a hybrid. This allows you to do 5 man stuff, and then for that rare fight you can switch specs to the hybrid.

    The downside to this is you can’t then have a PvP or healer spec as the off-spec. But again being honest with ourselves we wouldn’t have the gear fot it anyway till much later. As we level in Cata we will be picking reward gear based on what we want to do. And any emblem gear is also going to be used on our main spec. So it will be a few months before we have feral kitty, feral bear and then healer gear. Here at the end of WotLK I still don’t have a very high GS for switching to healer even if I wanted to.

    To wrap up I think I’ll sort of continue doing what I have been doing. A dual spec where primary is full cat dps and off-spec is for tanking so my wait times in LFD are really short.

    Final point. I bet that hybrid spec might really shine in soloing old content.

  5. With or without a utility spec, I have gone bear and soaked some OT damage to give the other druid enough time to battle-rez the fallen tank. Now, we all died anyway, but it’s the thought that counts, right?

  6. @ Goodmongo – If a feral cat is worth his claws hero bears are not hard to find. In our 25 man ICC I can’t even count on one paw how many times I have made a quick change to bear once the MT goes down and taunted a boss before even a single melee died. And this is on Heroic bosses. Bear – taunt – barksin/lifeblood macro and the healers have plenty of time to adjust.

    As for the point Kal made about pugs, my thinking is my “lack” of tanking skills in bear will not be the biggest issue in the group. Don’t mean to sounds elitest but when was the last time anyone who reads/posts in these forums felt like they were the weak link in a pug? I stll out dps people tanking in heroics even after the nerf bat to swipe. (Which reminds me pulled 20K dps on fastergut tank swapping two weeks in a row – tanked in kitty gear and talents too ;P) LOL the cries for nerfing druid after I was third in DPS while tanking still makes me smile. Dont blame me lolmourne wearers – druidz r just the good!

    • But this is WotLK stuff where you outgear it by tons. I’m referring to Cata and progression stuff. Let’s face it and be honest. Look back at the fights. The tank is usually not the first person to die. And let’s also be honest on how that tank died. Most likely that tank in tank gear with tank talents died because the damage it took was more than the healers could manage. So now you in bear but without tank stuff is going to survive that same type of attack?

      In 25 man raids there is a stronger possibility to be a hero bear. But not really in 10 man raids. Often you and you alone are the only druid so the rez is up to you. You can’t tank and rez at the same time and the situations where only a tank dies and you rush in and help out to save the day are very far apart.

      They happen and happened to me. There were really cool and solidified my position in the guild as a decent player. But to be honest we either killed the boss without an issue or we wiped. And on progression fights like say H-PP back a few months ago it was dps or healers dying not tanks. Same for H-Sindy and H-LK (which we never actually got done).

      TIme will tell but my gut is that till we outgear Cata we will need every ounce of talents and gear and glyphs to go forward.

  7. I respeced my full cat spec into your Hybrid spec last night, and must say that I am really liking it. I didn’t lose that much DPS as cat, and have been “Insta-Queing” as tank for my justice point grind. Very good sir.
    /Bow

  8. @GM,

    You make some good points. Yes, if the first tank dies, that’s probably a good sign you’re not going to last long. :) Tanks don’t typically die because they’re taking too much damage, though; they die because the tank healer was dodging a mechanic or trying to help heal the raid, or someone else screwed something up. There have been quite a few gimmick-type “dispel this effect or the tank goes splat” bosses; if a dispel got missed and the tank was splatted, that doesn’t mean that the healing was too low.

    I don’t think I’ve ever herobear’d a progression kill; but I’ve saved a LOT of farm kills/PUG raid kills. Koralon/Onyxia80 were good examples of this.

    • Alaron, you and I are actually on the same page. I think hybrid is great for leveling, pugs, farming etc. It is also a decent alternative once you are geared out. My whole point was that for a fresh 85 in cata doing those very first raids the hybrid spec will have to sit in the closet. We don’t have the gear and we will need everyonce of dps or survivability that we can muster at the start.

      I’m just thinking back to level 80 in a couple of blues and trying H-HOL for the first time. We needed potions to survive that last fight. So giving up even a few dps or hp’s would most likely have meant a wipe. Once we had some Naxx gear it was a piece of cake. Of course getting Naxx gear was an adventure in itself. :)

  9. 754165 592001There is noticeably a great deal of money to recognize about this. I assume youve created certain good points in functions also. 750115

  10. 403221 187941Pretty! This was a really fantastic post. Thank you for your provided info. cool desktop 878199

  11. Hybrid Hate: Part 2 – The Fluid Druid
    abifwyopob
    [url=http://www.g72j09f025t1y9a8i3g7s6kax1co3a6ys.org/]ubifwyopob[/url]
    bifwyopob http://www.g72j09f025t1y9a8i3g7s6kax1co3a6ys.org/

  12. The noises and stressful the playoffs.”We are eager to match.”Owen said.Knight should first game will be on Thursday in east, and before them
    barbour jackets

  13. Because Michael Owen at the side of huang zhan, so his nickname called small report.The earliest Owen left the impression of the world, is probably the flashy passing movements and dazzling breakthroughs, remember in the rookie challenge, he drew down two slipped past knight
    kyrie 4 shoes

  14. Draft of the same year on the bottom rookie will be what?In general the draft should be able to blow the other party, who would have thought them took Owen on the 60th pick small Thomas in the same year, he turned out to be in the position of the challenger?
    ecco

  15. My brother recommended I would possibly like this blog. He was once totally right. This put up truly made my day. You can not believe just how much time I had spent for this information! Thanks!
    lebron james shoes

  16. One important reminder, don’t join a community to spam them or talk incessantly about your business.
    Cheap World Cup Jerseys

  17. Austin had his best year in 2015, setting career highs in targets, catches yards, rushing attempts, rushing yards and touchdowns but that took three very frustrating seasons and a handful of offensive coordinators.
    China NFL Jerseys

  18. Recently, the Fansided to knight main rotation player in the first two rounds of the playoffs, the performance of the Owen only C +, love there is only a B.
    air max 90

  19. The platform lacks detailed analytics, but does provide what it refers to as a Breeze Social Score, which is a “measurement of the total number of people who see your messages, the number of people who are actively engaged with you, your recent activity level, and the level of response it’s generated.
    Wholesale NFL Jerseys China

  20. Carey – Owen about injury of varese, said it happened out how knight players want to play games.”I was about to enter a 5 on 5 game, but after three seconds, varese is injured
    adidas zx flux

  21. NBA players in addition to playing badly, and also an art cells, for two consecutive years in the NBA finals two teams join forces with the warriors and knight, but only two dancers, two teams played neck and neck, dancing is close, take a look at
    lebron soldier 10

  22. Obviously, the right to occupy a team-high 21.6 shots of Michael Owen, but failed to hit as James scores, this let a person feel, Owen has become a “cancer” of the knight.But many fans also feel,
    adidas nmd r1 primeknit

  23. Tag Heuer replica watchs remain one of the replica that is beneficial and most well-known watches regarding high-class.
    replica cartier

  24. According to The Fear of The Sword, The knight’s point guard deron Williams is a fan of MMA (mixed), compared to The basketball game, deron prefer to watch The ultimate fighting championship.Deron Williams recently said in an interview, he retired from the NBA
    michael jordan shoes

  25. “I don’t think eastern conference finals will be a long war, knight’s strength is too strong. The celtics nobody with lebron, they even Owen this level of star all have no, they are really no one can stop the knight.
    vans shoes

  26. The noises and stressful the playoffs.”We are eager to match.”Owen said.Knight should first game will be on Thursday in east, and before them
    nike pg 2

  27. When a customer presents us with a problem with an order or is dissatisfied with a product, the first step is to simply acknowledge their concern, express empathy, and apologize.
    jerseys nfl wholesale

  28. Draft of the same year on the bottom rookie will be what?In general the draft should be able to blow the other party, who would have thought them took Owen on the 60th pick small Thomas in the same year, he turned out to be in the position of the challenger?
    lebron 15

  29. Some say it’s revolutionizing the Internet since most all online offers are commission-based, the offers can be easily changed and a merchant pays the commission only when a sale occurs.
    Wholesale Authentic Jerseys

  30. Will 2016 be different? Dan Quinn has another season under his belt and was able to add some complementary pieces — Courtney Upshaw, Derrick Shelby, Sean Weatherspoon and rookie first-round pick Keanu Neal — who should better fit the system.
    NFL Jerseys Supply

  31. Some truly good information, Glad I observed this.

  32. I do agree with all of the concepts you’ve offered for your post. They’re very convincing and can certainly work. Still, the posts are very short for starters. Could you please prolong them a bit from next time? Thanks for the post.

  33. We’ll find out on Sunday when they travel to Pittsburgh.
    Wholesale Hockey Jerseys China

  34. At the Innovate Conference, with our demos, with our training courses and the like, we’ll show each merchant where he or she fits into the ecosystem and how he or she can benefit.
    Cheap NFL Jerseys Stitched

  35. That doesn’t sit well with Browns fans.
    China Jerseys 2018

  36. With three points to beat John wall, the day before yesterday the wizards will competition into the tiebreak wars, 8:00 tomorrow the wizards will be tie-break at Celtic and rival.
    nike air huarache

  37. To illustrate, the following image shows the ecommerce conversion rate for a site with three segments selected: New Visitors, All Visitors, and Returning Visitors.
    holesale NFL Jerseys

  38. Top-notch info it is without doubt. My teacher has been awaiting for this info.

  39. I like what you guys are up also. Such intelligent work and reporting! Carry on the superb works guys I’ve incorporated you guys to my blogroll. I think it’ll improve the value of my web site :).

  40. You are my intake, I possess few web logs and occasionally run out from brand :).

  41. Thanks for the publish. My spouse and i have continually observed that the majority of people are desperate to lose weight as they wish to show up slim and attractive. Having said that, they do not continually realize that there are more benefits so that you can losing weight in addition. Doctors insist that fat people are afflicted by a variety of disorders that can be directly attributed to their own excess weight. Fortunately that people who’re overweight and suffering from a variety of diseases can help to eliminate the severity of their particular illnesses by way of losing weight. You are able to see a constant but marked improvement with health when even a moderate amount of fat loss is achieved.

  42. The NBA playoffs now for today, have determined the warriors in the western conference and will compete for a spot in the finals quota, knight still don’t know who his opponent was.However, even in the face of the celtics or the wizards, presumably knight will be
    yeezy boost

  43. Many thanks for sharing these types of wonderful content. In addition, the right travel as well as medical insurance system can often ease those worries that come with vacationing abroad. Some sort of medical crisis can rapidly become expensive and that’s bound to quickly impose a financial problem on the family finances. Having in place the great travel insurance program prior to setting off is well worth the time and effort. Thanks a lot

  44. The noises and stressful the playoffs.”We are eager to match.”Owen said.Knight should first game will be on Thursday in east, and before them
    yeezy boost

  45. As soon as I noticed this website I went on reddit to share some of the love with them.

  46. Knight finally written pledge to fulfill a military order!Owen Jefferson suspected the contradiction, huang zhan anger: don’t win playoff team and the team retired showdown between the more and more intense, will the rockets in just eliminated the spurs tomorrow will come and warriors in the first fight
    kyrie irving jersey

  47. Thanks for the tips you reveal through this blog. In addition, numerous young women which become pregnant don’t even try to get health insurance because they are full of fearfulness they probably would not qualify. Although some states at this point require that insurers give coverage despite the pre-existing conditions. Fees on these kinds of guaranteed plans are usually higher, but when thinking about the high cost of medical treatment it may be the safer strategy to use to protect your own financial potential.

  48. One more thing. It’s my opinion that there are lots of travel insurance websites of respectable companies that permit you to enter your vacation details to get you the quotes. You can also purchase an international travel cover policy on the web by using your current credit card. Everything you need to do should be to enter your travel particulars and you can understand the plans side-by-side. Merely find the plan that suits your capacity to pay and needs and then use your credit card to buy that. Travel insurance on the web is a good way to do investigation for a reliable company regarding international travel insurance. Thanks for expressing your ideas.

 Leave a Reply

(required)

(required)