Jan 132011

Extra post. From mmo-c:

Druid (ForumsCataclysm Talent CalculatorBeta Skills/Talents)

  • Shapeshifts: Entering or leaving a shapeshift no longer cancels root effects. It continues to cancel movement slowing effects.

And I was just starting to enjoy feral PvP too. Wow. Um, I’ll let some people who have been doing feral PvP for a long time comment more as to whether it was needed or not (what do we do against a frost mage now? Cyclone?), but I’m really amazed at some of the mechanics changes they’re testing on the PTR: sweeping changes for a “bugfix” patch. Like this one: “Hunters can now use Auto Shot while moving.”

 Posted by at 2:09 am

  34 Responses to “4.0.6 Notes, 12 January – The Day The Druid Stood Still”

  1. It’s a ridiculous change. First fear immunity removal and now both immunity to sheeps while in tree form gone and no way for a feral to break roots. They are really adamant to break the Druid in all forms of pvp for this patch.
    As I’ve said before, I mainly pvp as resto, but done enough as feral in wotlk to tell you that we weren’t exactly owning the mages.

  2. I hope thats just an experiment they are conducting on the PTR…

  3. patch note for 4.0.7:
    Druids can’t use shapeshifting in arenas or battlegrounds.

  4. I’m guessing this change will not make it to live. All melee classes have root breaking abilities, and without them they wouldn’t be viable in pvp.

  5. Wow um……… it wasn’t like we had mana to shapeshift all day either. I’ve been feral and into pvping for five years, and this was always one of my favorite niches we had! Why don’t they just up mana cost on shapeshifting?

    I’ll admit feral pvp was a little too ridiculous but that’s what the bleed nerfs were for I thought. Why is shapeshifting out of roots seen as a problem all the sudden? Was the decision made with feral pvp in mind or resto? QUESTIONS!!!??

    Whelp, I’m bummed out but we don’t know yet if it’ll make it live.

    • Using more exclamation marks makes your point more valid.

      On topic, we -do- have mana to shapeshift all day long. Which is good, and the way Blizzard wanted it. This (along with berserk giving fear immunity) made ferals very hard to CC, and casters being able to snare/CC melee is a cornerstone of pvp balance (which, being feral, I hate, but those are the breaks).

      Like I said, I can’t believe they’ll leave ferals without a snare break, but I wouldn’t be shocked if they moved the snare break to a medium CD (like, say, attaching it to Tiger’s Fury).

      • You are not allowed to be silly on the internet!!!????

        You’d have the mana to shift forever if you never wanted to throw around heals and CC, sure. :P

      • I have enough mana for cyclones, roots, and the occasional heal (lifebloom is nice). If I made a habit out of casting more than 2-3 spells in a row I’d run oom, yeah, but then I’d be doing it wrong :)

        I generally find that going back into form and building a finisher allows LOTP to fills my mana bar back up.

        Enhancement shaman and retribution pallies run oom very fast if they stand around casting too (unless they wear healing gear, those annoying ret buggers).

      • Generally agree with this, actually. Being unbiased about it, being able to spam shapeshifts to break cc was pretty OP. I’d be fine if it was on a short cooldown. After all, Pally HoF is what, 20-30s CD?

        Really wouldn’t want to tie it to TF, though. It’d have to be a new ability of some kind.

      • @Alaron – Rather increase the mana cost for shapeshifting. It’s kinda silly all this:
        – Originally we had intellect on our gear, which gave us lots (well, some) of mana.
        – Then they removed the intellect and shapeshifting got expensive, so they lowered it because shapeshifting is core to playing druid.
        – They say that druids are hard to CC. Maybe, but since 4.x we’ve lost: ability to break sheeps with ss, fear immunity (which really only matter to locks and you can’t say they had big problems with us before) and now being able to break roots.
        Come to think of it, I think that druids are the only ones who can’t break it now. We’ve gone from hardest to CC, to easiest to CC.

        It’s been a key part of druids since launch and when, if ever except maybe now, have ferals been OP in PvP?

        Personally, I think it’s very good that CCs overall gets a nerf. They’ve never been very balanced nor fun, and you can’t say it’s skill based when you get fear/stun/fear/stun/fear/dead-killed by a lock from full health without being allowed a single click.

  6. So, with patch 4.0.3, feral druids are finally a top PvP class. (Admittedly) OP bleeds and Skull Bash make them very viable. This is unacceptable – the rule is, feral druids MUST be frustrating to PvP with!

    So we (understandably) get changes to damage mechanics, restructured on the PTR so that more damage should theoretically come from impact rather than bleeds. I get that, it makes sense.

    The fear-immunity change to Berserk is annoying. The shape-shift change, if it goes live, is tougher to swallow. It effectively gives classes like mages another incapacitate against ferals, and drastically reduces the utility of our 13-yard “ranged” interrupt and Feral Charge. It also takes away a unique feature of being a druid.

    I’ll be honest: I like playing druids because of those neat abilities. But if these changes stick, the net effect for me will be that, between the launch of 4.0.3 and the day this patch drops, we cat druids will have gained an interrupt and a free Ravage (post-Feral Charge), and lost most of our abilities to remove/avoid CC. For me, it’s a net loss for feral PvP. It makes rogues more attractive to me because of their versatility, but I don’t want to play a rogue (and one significant reason is because I just don’t want to level another toon).

    Cyclone has limited utility here – if a mage comes out of an Ice Block and does a Frost Nova -> Blink, they are out of range of Cyclone (but can still do damage to the druid), effectively eliminating the druid from the equation until the root breaks. Having to break out of a root by using a PvP trinket with a 2min cooldown is a painful choice to have to make.

    My guess is that, in order to survive after these changes are made, ferals will have to increase their resilience and stamina, sacrificing more offense for more survivability through gem/enchant choices. It’s a half-hearted guess, though – as it stands, as a cat druid I’m not looking forward to the patch at all.

    Sorry for the wall of text. I know that this comment is about PvP, but that’s where this change will hurt the most, obviously, and it’s what I mainly do when I play my druid.

  7. Remember that all the roots are only going to last 8 seconds, now. Breaking roots is mighty useful in PvE in many situations, too.

  8. @Korhaug You’re right you generally do not run out of mana shifting/few heals/CC. I suppose I was thinking of my worst possible scenario with a frost mage and my partner is CC’d. :) Even then I can just toss my bummy innervate and haul ass.

    Also I tend to mostly do BGs with the boyfriend (enh shaman) and we like to go about as an annoying duo healing one another when we have to. I can easily run out of mana healing that jerk haha.

    I think a lot of the being upset over this, myself included, is that it’s been this way for so long. And as usual people jump the gun and get pretty upset over oh-god-changes. Oh well, it’s not going to ruin the class for me if it actually goes live!

    Maybe they can attach a root breaker (for the player only) to Stampeding Roar hmm…

    • Oh, I totally get being upset. But I’m also a systems designer, so I try to tackle it on the design level to help me contain my hatred, lest it fills the cavernous deeps (I mean seriously, who wrote that line?!).

      Attaching a root break to Stampeding Roar misses the point, since it’s on too long a CD. And to answer Alaron – adding a new ability is the “cleanest” solution, but the least likely. Blizzard (rightfully) hates adding new abilities to solve problems like this. I agree that Tiger’s Fury would be a bad match. But you know what would work? Feral charge.

      Of course, we’re all in theoretical space here. The most likely outcome is that shapeshifting will just continue to break snares.

      • How about, whenever Savage Roar is up, shapeshifting removes roots? It means it has a cost, that is beneficial, but might be a sacrifice if you got 5 points up and a mage at 10%. Sort of?

  9. This does not affect JUST feral this affects EVERY druid that pvp’s. mages get bonus damage on you if you are frost nova’ed when i arena Resto or boomkin, or even play feral i shape shift out of everything no matter the spec. this ability has been the pinical of pvp druids for 6 years

    • Well, at least the restos can dispell themselves out of it. But our 3 mins CD “uber” form can now be sheeped, so we are sort of doomed as restos against mages as well.

      • I didn’t include it, but they’ve reverted that change for now.

      • Yeah, I just noticed that. Actually, I had seen it but got the original message wrong. Oh well, that’s great even though they cut the time down by 5 secs again, and that’s gonna affect PvE. :-/

  10. It would be nice to see them add root breaks to feral charge and/or Skull bash now to give back ferals some mobility on a short cooldown.

  11. Maybe it was OP when playing as boomkin, or resto, but it just seemed to be so niche for ferals. They could possibly add something to Feral’s “Feral Swiftness” ability. 15%/30% movement increase and a 50/100% chance to break root? Then move it down a tier or two to prevent balance/resto from getting it too.

    If they go through with this, at least from a feral PvP point of view, I’d feel very less druidy. I thought the fear removal was legitimate enough but I feel this removal leaves a void in my feral heart…:-/

  12. I almost cried when I saw this, seeing as I just started pvping on my druid. I was getting used to when to use all these cc breakers, the fear nerf is definitely gonna suck but since I never pvp’d i’m not used to using it anyways.

    Its pretty bad when I started pvping on monday and have had my druid for 4 years and just got wsg, av, ab and eye of the storm victories on tuesday. Talk about never pvping.

  13. I got my first 1v2 kill on a ele/resto pair last night in AB. Charge+Pounce the ele (couldn’t tell specs pre-combat), rake/mangle/ravage/rip, insta-cyclone the healer, go back to cat, SB the ele’s hex, kill him, then burn the healer (who pretty much gave up). Loved it.

    I’m still figuring out the best way to be effective in big melees, though (like Tol Barad) I’ve been trying to sneak around and tunnel a healer, but that usually gets me focused and killed.

    • @Alaron

      Back when I rolled a resto shaman, I had a kitty do that to me and my lock friend in a WSG. Albeit, wrath had only been out a few weeks and he may have had a decent lead in gear than us. That’s when I decided to roll kitty. So, who knows…maybe you just led one of those shamans to join our ranks. ;)

      I, as well, got my first 1v2 the other day in arena. My partner went down leaving me against 2 ret paladins. (One being around 50%). I was able to cyclone the one with full health, and slowly drew the 50% paladin away from his friend. I then proceeded to trade off cyclones and roots on the full health paladin until he was dead. I then finished off his friend, staying dangerously around 5-25% HP. After doing that, the bleed nerfs and root glyph just made sense…Us becoming rootable though…still drawing a blank on that one.

  14. Up to this change I thought the PVP changes were fine, but this change is too much considering how many classes have multiple root breaks and we’re left with none at all. I totally agree with a poster on a previous thread; these changes leave us more and more like another flavor of rogue.

  15. Beserk Nerf i can live with that. Bleed nerf i can live with that too but shapeshift nerf, thats a big no no RIFT here i come, WOW uninstalled.

  16. I still think there’s a good chance that this is just a Blizzard fast one – i.e. “We’re making a lot of changes to druids that’ll have them all up in arms, so let’s to put in something so ridiculous that, when we ‘change our minds about it’ and take it out they won’t complain about the real changes”.

  17. Ive just cancelled my subscription. Theres a few other friends of mine who play druids and warriors have too. This aint looking good for the game atm. Reading all the forums theres gonna be many cancelled subscriptions by the looks of this patch. I certainly aint falling into blizzards trap of nerfing a class so bad to force people reroll. Im just quiting, had enough of this s*** got Rift GW2 and starwars to try this year anyhow. :-). I been reading this website for many months now and its been a joy to read so, so long folks and GL :-)

  18. I agree with Jeaz. There’s too much CC in the game as it is. Not getting to press a button till you’re running for your corpse seems like a much bigger problem then mages complaining that they’re getting hit in combat. And I have an arcane mage. And screwing with signature abilities like root-breaking on a druid is a great way to piss off a lot of people. Even with the ability, I run out of mana just trying to stay in melee range of a survival huntard.

    Less CC, more fite!

  19. After reading all these comments, I am amazed at how people feel like they can no longer enjoy the class because *le gasp* we can’t escape rooting effects any more. Oh no… Blizzard broke the game!

    There are other classes who have never been able to escape from rooting effects and those just had to sit out and wait. It felt incredibly unfair to see a druid simply shapeshift and be free just like that.

    You can’t be immune to everything the game has to offer; druids can still ‘ignore’ slowing effects, which is still a big deal. Warriors are already crying their eyes out over this ability being available for the druids after the patch. You are still having the upperhand in PvP when it comes to such, no matter that you can shift yourself out of rootings.

    Now druids will have to ‘suffer’ like any other class, which I find a good thing. Gives it more of a challenge.

    • I think you show some basic lack of understanding in how this affects Druids.

      At the moment:
      Warriors have spellreflect, whirlwind and other cc immuny
      Paladins have blessing of freedom and bubble
      Dk have anti magic shell, zone and can always death grip any ranged.

      Druids now have: nothing.

      Yes, we are still immune to sheeps while in from but that’s it. No longer fear immune, no longer break roots and can’t break sheeps if caught in human form. Not saying that neither was due, just that adding this to the list is too much.

      I won’t stop playing Druid, but I’m gonna choose a spec that’s viable in the future, not feral.
      If I ever do pvp as feral I’ll be sure to work on my dance emote as that’s all I can do then.

  20. Give us an anti-magic shell or spell reflect and I can accept the loss of roots-breaking, Mareepbeep. Otherwise we’re just mage-pinatas.

  21. Stampeding roar and dash both remove snares with feral swiftness.

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