Apr 172011

In my last post I discussed rotation modifications for dealing with Berserk in 4.1. In so doing, I also touched on the relative performance of the Glyph of Tiger’s Fury (GoTF) and the Glyph of Berserk(GoB) on different fights. As often happens, a fair amount of the commentary by people on that post has been on the relative value of the glyphs rather than on the changes to the rotation with Berserk no longer being on the GCD. Rather than continue to discuss the glyphs on that post, I decided to toss up this post as a place to begin a more in-depth discussion of GoTF and GoB. The tricky part about comparing GoB with GoTF is that either can be better depending on the fight mechanics and fight length. GoB is particularly sensitive to fight length due to the three minute cooldown and GoTF is particularly impacted on a fight like Atramedes where the repeating air phases are 31.5 seconds with no chance to cast TF while the GoB cooldown continues to tick down.

My feeling is that the choice of whether to use GoB or GoTF is dependent on both fight mechanics and raid needs. GoTF will provide more overall dps on fights where there is no interruption on attacks (Chimaeron is a good example) but GoB will provide more burst dps (which is also applicable to Chimaeron where burst is important in phase 3). It really depends on the role one is playing in the fight.

My goal of this post is not to say which glyph is better, but rather to help people gain some insight into how fight mechanics and fight length affect each of the glyphs. Atremedes is a really interesting fight to show that on due to the periodic air phases. Per DBM the timing in Atramedes is:

  1. Initial 90 second ground phase
  2. 31.5 second air phase
  3. 85 second ground phase
  4. 31.5 second air phase
  5. repeat the 85/31.5 second pattern until either Atremedes is dead or the enrage timer is hit

A couple of things to keep in mind. The dps script has not been optimized for this fight. It will try to cast Berserk as early and often as possible with the constraint that it will try not to delay the next TF. To optimize the script for this fight, there are likely times where it would be better to cast Berserk at a point where it will delay TF in order to get as much Berserk time as possible before the next air phase. Additionally, it is difficult to know what to set the Blood in the Water timing to so I am leaving it at 25% – which really impacts dps when Atramedes dies during or right after an air phase. I am going to test a series of fights that use the same profile, for both the GoB and the GoTF with the fight length increasing in 30 second intervals from 5:00 to 8:30. The setup I am using is a balanced stats profile – Weapon DPS: 703.5, Strength: 142, Agility: 5118, AttackPower: 887, Haste Rating: 936, Hit rating: 604, Crit Rating: 954, Expertise Rating: 188, and Mastery rating: 1987 (this is an ilvl 362 setup). The testing is based on the 4.1 Berserk along with the Berserk changes I covered in my last post.

So what does the data below tell us? First off, you should use GoB on Atramedes. At 6:30 and 7:00 you can see the impact of the Berserk logic waiting for TF to come  off of cooldown resulting in Berserk being clipped when using the GoTF. Putting in some additional fight specific logic to minimize clipping of Berserk right before an air phase,  I just got 19347 dps, 12.3 TFs, and 2.9 Berserks for the 6:30 GoTF fight and 19606 dps, 13.5 TFs and 2.9 Berserks for the 7:00 minute GoTF fight – so pushing off a TF in order to avoid clipping a Berserk can be a small dps up – but it is not that significant. Notice that the dps difference between GoTF and GoB goes from a low of 23dps on the 5:00 fights to a high of 292dps on the 7:00 fights which is a pretty big swing. You can see how much fight length and mechanics affect dps – which has a high of 20273 on the 5:00 GoB fight to a low of 18126 on the 8:00 GoTF fight.

Sometime soon, I will do a followup post comparing the two glyphs on a patchwork style fight at different fight lengths. That will favor GoTF and  will further illustrate how fight length and mechanics affect TF, Berserk, overall dps and the choice of which glyph to use, GoTF or GoB.


Glyph of Tiger’s Fury Glyph of Berserk
Fight Length DPS # of TFs # of Berserks DPS # of TFs # of Berserks
5:00 20250 10.2 2 20273 8 2
5:30 20068 10.6 2 20217 9 2
6:00 18261 11.5 2 18418 9.9 2
6:30 19348 12.5 2.7 19573 10.2 3
7:00 19561 13.6 2.8 19853 11.7 3
7:30 19319 13.9 3 19518 12 3
8:00 18126 14.8 3 18362 13 3
8:30 18841 15.9 3 19010 14 3

  8 Responses to “Analyzing Glyph of Tiger’s Fury and Glyph of Berserk on Atremedes”

  1. Was there really any significant changes to our rotation due to Beserk change? Other than casting it at the same time as TF and the next GCD ability?

    Either way, interesting post. Looking forward to the follow-up.

  2. I have a question. Why is there a steady decrease in DPS? After all isn’t the only difference the 5 additional seconds for the first ground phase?

    If the fight went on for 60 minutes would there be a continued decrease in DPS or is there some minimum point for DPS wher eit won’t go any lower?

    • Don’t forget potting, time off the boss, and cooldowns.

      Each time the boss flys up in the air you will lose dps. Remember thats damage per second. The more seconds in the fight the more times he flies off and you are not doing damage.

      If cooldowns don’t line up with each ground phase (which they don’t) you will not be able to sustain the damage you were putting out at the start of the fight by drinking that first pot.

      Also if you notice it is not a steady decline, but every few drops there is a rise before the next fall. This has to do with being able to use one of said cooldowns.

      • I understand all that but the fight was 90 seconds on 31.5 off, then 85 on 31.5 off 85 on, 31.5 off etc. So outside of using a flask if that first ground phase was 85 seconds then the DPS after the first ground/air should be the same for the second set.

        What I’m driving at is there is zero DPS out side of dots during the air phase. During the ground phase you do your damage. And if you look at the numbers it’s the first 5 minutes that are 20K+ not the first 90 seconds. In the first 5 minutes there were two complete phases already.

        I’m just really confused why there is a further 10% drop in DPS from 5 minutes till the 8 minute mark. then I add the question if this drop would continue from 8 till 11 minute mark.

        • I checked the Mew script and realized the 6 minute and 8 minute numbers are lower than they should be because the script casts Heroism in the last 40 seconds of the fight – which is on top of the air phase for both of those fights. I fixed the script to find the last available 40 second block of ground time in the fight. Here are new numbers for the 6 and 8 minute fights:

          6min GoTF: 18504 dps, 11.5 TFs, 2 Berserks
          6min GoB: 18626 dps, 10TFs, 2 Berserks
          8min GoTF: 18337dps, 14.8TFs, 3 Berserks
          8min GoB: 18533dps, 13TFs, 3 Berserks.

          6 and 8 minutes are the worst because the final air phases occur entirely during the BiTW phase.

          At 10 minutes GoB has 18298dps. By this point the value of pre-potting is very little and the dps will not go significantly lower. Actually, at 11 minutes it will likely go higher – but the encounter duration is capped at 10 minutes right now.

        • I modified the Mew UI to allow an 11 minute fight for two Heroisms.

          11min GoTF: 18789dps, 20TFs, 3.6 Berserks
          11min GoB: 19112dps, 18TFs, 4 Berserks.

          There you go – dps is higher at 11 minutes than 10 minutes as expected.

  3. Thank You Leafkiller. It makes much more sense now.

  4. […] by Leafkiller @ Fluid Druid, 4.1: “Berserk no longer on the global cooldown.” and Analyzing Glyph of Tiger’s Fury and Glyph of Berserk on Atramedes have a more detail look and comparison between both glyphs for certain types of Boss […]

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