Jun 072011

There was a post I made awhile back talking about all the great things this site has to offer, the main of which is the FluidDruid Forums. The forums are again of course where we discuss what we should be doing in game play to increase dps. One of the main responses to this was that “I’m a casual reader and don’t really have the time to read through all the post made of the forums for any updates to changes in rotation.” I’ve always kept that comment in the back of my mind knowing that when there were topics on the forums worth bringing into a larger light I’d be able to jump on them for a post. While there’s nothing ground breaking in the forums in terms of changes to game play, there is a lot of confusion. Confusion which I hope to help clear up for the readers.

First is this thing we call stat values. People think that as a feral if I don’t reforge a certain way that I will largely be impacting my damage potential. This isn’t the case at all. Feral’s don’t work like other dot classes due to our bleeds not being effected by haste. Most classes with dots will tend to get haste all the way up to a magical number which will give their dots that extra tick and then from that point move to the next stat that will boost their damage and start stacking that.

As a Feral all of our secondary stats will net you again of roughly one. Meaning when your wondering if you should stack haste, crit, mastery, hit and exp the answer is always going to be “well what feels right to you.” No matter how you reforge your dps will only be moving plus or minus by a few hundred, which can easily be made up by better play on the boss encounters. So the main question that might be presented is well what is going to dictate upgrades. Again this is going to depend on your play style. I run hit and expertise capped, past those caps I want a high mastery value. So for me I use Fluid Death to help me reach my caps faster and get an overall increase in my mastery numbers.

When looking at gear remember Agility will always be three times more valuable then any secondary stats (stats that do not get buffed by Mark of the Wild) any secondary stats are going to be just as valuable as the next depending on how you play. With that said let’s give Agility a value of 3 and everything else a value of 1.

So let’s look at Sark of the Unwatched first (remember Agility gets a plus 3 while anything else gets a plus 1)

  • 345 Agi times 3=1035
  • 227 Crit times 1= 227
  • 247 Mastery times 1= 247
  • Now remembering the socket rule if changing one gem doesn’t net you a 13 Agility gain then your better off with a 40 Agi gem we would socket this chest with two 40 Agi gems.
  • 80 Agi times 3= 240
  • For a total of 1749! Nice chest.

Now let’s look at the heroic tier chest (remember Agility gets a plus 3 while anything else gets a plus 1)

  • 345 Agi times 3=1035
  • 257 Haste times 1= 257
  • 217 Expertise times 1= 217
  • Here the gemming rule applies. Changing one pure agility gem will gain us 20 Agility on this chest so it’s a bonus we want. One 40 Agi gem plus one 20 Agi/20 Hit gem will gain us the 20 Agi socket bonus for 80 Agi and 20 Hit
  • 80 Agi times 3= 240
  • 20 Hit times 1=20
  • For a total of 1769! Better chest.

Now I know what your thinking, “Q there’s no way it’s that simple your not taking into account what happens under scenario X or Y or even Z…Q what about Z!?” Well you can argue that, but why would you? While what I’ve shown you is the most basic elementary style of looking for an upgrade the method works. Not only does this work, but as you can see it doesn’t take long or much thinking at all. This is something you can do just by looking over two pieces of gear,so we can get into the bigger part of raising dps which is proper play style. Stat values are nice; however, if your not maximizing your debuffs and Savage Roar uptimes then your really focusing on the wrong part of the game when it comes to trying to raise your dps numbers. (Well hopefully that kills any new RSV post that were going to be made in the next week or so.)

On a smaller note because I actually have been doing this wrong and am so glad to have finally been corrected on it. Did you know that it is actually a dps gain to always FB below 25% once you have 5 combo points. That’s right always, of course keep up rake and savage roar. Doing so will gain you 200 dps (I think it was to lazy to read my notes) in 4.2 and much less currently but still worth doing.

That was really all going around the forums this weekend. As always feel free to comment or PM me with any questions or suggestions or anything you got. On a funny note Leaf said that he’s amazed no one has sent him a PM lately with questions about his Ovale script so I do expect his inbox to be full come Friday. Make it happen.

 Posted by at 1:41 am

  204 Responses to “Check in on the Forums: Vol 1”

  1. Do you mean that it’s a dps gain to FB at 5CP below 25% even when the Rip currently on the target is buffed by TF and Synapse Springs? Because I can’t imagine that’s the case :o When I know that I’ve put up such a Rip I usually make sure I’ve let it run the majority of its duration before refreshing it with a bite.

    Personally I still reforge away from hit and expertise in favour of mastery and crit. Sometimes this reeeeeally annoys me but most of the time I don’t mind. Maybe I just like being the only melee without any form of cap or break point.

    • Leaf mathed it all out for everyone. This was without eng gloves; however, in case of Tiger’s Fury currently it’s an approximate 10 dps loss. In the case of 4.2 a Tiger’s Fury clipped rip with bite becomes dps neutral.

      As for all your engineers out there I’m sure it would require more testing. Unless Leaf has some insight he can share when he checks this later on.

      • Huh, well what do you know- I guess bite is slightly better than I thought. I guess I’ll just carry on much as I have been then if it’s going to be essentially neutral.

        If I know I applied a Rip with a Tol’Vir potion or my synapse springs up then I always try to let it tick down to a few ticks before refreshing it (I like to play safe on not letting it drop off).

  2. Hey Q (Yes this is a James Bond reference, after all you give tips and tricks to help us defeat our foes with British-like flair)

    Very nice article as always, i like the way you break down things. One side comment however : if RSV’s aren’t that important, we still have to consider the way stats work with each other.

    For instance, as Haste speeds up your auto-attacks, you won’t fully benefit from it unless you are hit-capped (in opposition to bleeds critting which can’t miss once applied). So I’d say you fully benefit from Haste once hit/expertise is capped.

    Shadralon – Cho’gall Horde EU

  3. Speaking about the hit/exp cap thing, I recently reforged to it and am so much happier now to find myself not stabbing at specials multiple times. For me there is already enough stuff going on for me to have to worry about misses etc.

    I like how you mention that gameplay more than gear makes the biggest impact of all. As a person who has enormous problems strafing (hello Atramedes my cursed enemy) I would be curious as to what some good practise for this would be.

    • Play a FPS. Profit.

      Playing Feral sometimes reminds me of Half-Life.

    • FPS’s will help out a bit if you want more WoW type practice the best thing to do is the go to the target dummies. Try to use a proper rotation while running in a circle around the dummy. Once you have that down your ready for anything that blind dragon can toss at you.

  4. Good article – but I’m still confused (there’s always one of us…). I like the way that you compared and contrasted the two chest pieces – which basically showed us that the T11 chest piece is better simply because of the gem bonus.

    But I have a few clarifying questions:
    1. When taking in to account ALL of your gear, is it better to pick a secondary stat and continue to reforge to it? For instance, if I chose the T11 Heroic chest, I would be favoring haste as my “chosen” secondary stat. Does this mean that on another slot, when choosing between two pieces of gear, I should choose the gear with the most haste (assuming AGI is equal) – even though simply comparing the two pieces of gear, the non-haste item might have a better score?

    2. If so, if you pick haste, would you want to be hit/expertise capped first? (My understanding – correct if wrong): Haste increases the number of melee attacks you get, and also increases your regen rate for energy. Since you would likely depend more on melee attacks for dps, than you would under a mastery scenario, it would seem logical that you would want your hit/expertise capped. If you went mastery, you would favor bleed dmg instead of melee dmg, therefore you wouldn’t need as much hit/expertise. Thoughts?

    Thanks – great article!

    • Hey Clearwaters.

      What I think Q is getting at is that it really doesn’t matter that much. It’s all about playstyle. Let’s say you focused on Haste. You will have slightly faster energy gain and have more white attacks. However all of your attacks will miss more often, and will crit less often because you will have reforged out of Crit and Hit/Expertise. If you go for the Hit/Expertise caps, your attacks won’t miss at all. You will have fewer Crits, and slightly fewer white hits. In the end you will find the biggest success by keeping your Bleed/Mangle/SR uptimes high, and using all of your abilities to their fullest. Now if you favor one stat it may personally help you accomplish the above requirements better then a different stat. Find what you are most comfortable and you will be getting the most out of your feral.

      As a good example a little over a month ago I was running with a little bit of hit, and no expertise. I ranked on the V&T fight. The next week I went full expertise/hit cap. I gave up a lot of crit and mastery to get there. That week I did about 200dps lower. The next week a adjusted so I was slightly below both hit and expertise cap but I didn’t give up any mastery. I was about 90dps below my ranking. All 3 fights were pretty close together in time. I was able to berserk 3 times each fight, and my Bleed/SR up times were very close together. All said and done three different reforges produced about the same level of output in the real world. I will say that Hit/Exp builds tend to make me more consistant week over week. I think having some of both but not quite hitting the cap is the best setup for me. Play around and find what makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

    • Hey for your first question is you can do it that way. Really though you have to remember there isn’t that many different agi pieces you can use, since your always going to want to use your 4p bonus. The rest of the pieces just sort of fall in line minus conclave random enchant items. Which if you get an item with perfect stats for you, then of course equip that and avoid the reforge.

      For question two, not at all. A lot of people preferred to stack mastery and then haste for awhile because someone said it was better and we all just sort of fell in line like the sheep we are. Yes your melee damage is going to raise with Hit/Exp cap; however, you have to remember the movement, target switches, and overall time spent on these fights where you can not dps. I highly recommend that mastery is always the stat you stack first for this reason as bleed damage is still the only damage you get on a target that your not on. Hit/Exp set up is more used for the fluid combo point generation as well as controlled refreshes of our debuffs.

  5. Will these stats values hold true in 4.2? Rumours I read were that haste will be bumped up above crit/mastery. Mind you with all the PTR updates that is changing almost daily.

    Thanks for the great post though QBear :D

    • Some of the rumblings you have heard have been around some early guesses on numbers then run through a simulator. However even if we could trust those numbers (which we shouldn’t) the stat values were still VERY close together. Until something else changes assume going into 4.2 that Agi is king, and any combo of other stats that makes you feel you are performing your best is what you should go with.

      • Awesome news, I’ve been parking my Feral for almost a month since the tips I was given. Healers in my guild have all disappeared so my Holy Paly has been my main raiding toon. Really hope Healers show up this week, I want to bring my uptimes up and see the improvements.

        that and my 2nd Druid, Resto/Boomkin is 48% from dinging 85, lol

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