Aug 272011

Taking a moment to step away from the feral craft that usually happens here, I wanted to take a moment to discuss another great aspect to this game. No two guilds are the same in Azeroth. Determining which guild is the best fit for your situation can be intimidating at first and is a process I just went through recently. Looking into the process in depth I hope to help anyone out there who might be thinking that it is time for a change and give them the courage to tackle a very daunting process.

I know some of you might be thinking “Q?! I understand your decent on your feral, but why do I care what you think about the apping process?” Well I’ve been an officer in both a US 300th guild as well as a US 30th guild. Both times I helped determine which applicants were worthy of a trial position. Most guilds use a similar check list to determine who would be worth trialing and more often then not a personal with less than average raiding experience can still gain trials to impressive guilds if their application is amazing.

Before we can get into the application process we really have to determine why it is you are leaving your current guild. Most guilds will ask you this and there are usually only a small number of answers that don’t raise immediate red flags. In order of things we have no control over, the number one reason would be a guild disband. It goes without saying why you would be looking for a new guild if your old one has officially stopped raids. With the harder tuned fights that Cataclysm has brought forth I haven’t seen so many guilds disappear since Lich King HM.

Another reason is of course lifestyle change, as summer starts up a lot of people step away from the game. This effects many raiding guilds; however, a lot of players like the change of being able to spend more time away from the game. This can lead them into looking for raiding guilds with less raiding hours per week. I’ve personally know many who get their whole work schedule changed and have to find guilds with different raiding hours all together.

The main reason people shift guilds is progression. It seems the longer a content patch is the more people try to move to guilds that have everything on farm in hopes of getting the achievements and gear they would not be able to obtain in the guilds they were in previously. If this is the reason your changing guilds then I hope to help make your application process easier with the rest of this post and be reading through the forums, because it takes a hell of a lot of class knowledge to jump from a 1/7 heroic mode guild to a 6/7 heroic mode guild over night.

Probably bigger then the actual application step is finding the right guild for you. If you are searching for a guild there’s a few things you should do that I don’t think gets done enough when people go hunting. First is make sure your moving up in the world, unless your actually going casual and just want a place to hang out and raid 2 nights a week trading a 6/7 normal mode guild for a 6/7 normal mode guild is never fun. If you are going to be leaving your group of friends the people you have been raiding with for months or years you might as well go up in the world. Using that same logic is remember not to get too ambitious, 4/7 heroic is when you can separate the semi-hardcore progression guild to the more hardcore minded progression guild. basically if your only killing normal mode Firelands and you start guild hunting I would only app to any guild that is 4/7 heroic or lower. Once you get into the 5 or 6/7 guilds your really going to have to shine to stand out, of course you can still get in and do well but in my personal experience this will fail more times then it will work.

Once you find a few guilds you like you need to look over there parses on World of Logs. Using this parse you can determine if your personal dps will hold out in their raid group, you must also look at their raids dps verses your guilds old raid dps. If everyone in their guild is pushing 24k dps and you were pushing 20k in your guild as the top dps, while everyone else in your old guild was only pushing 17k then I can promise you that when you enter their raid group if you play on that same level you will easily push the same if not more dps then their guild members. Any good guild will be able to see this and sort of give a rough estimate where you would be with their decreased fight time involved.

The next thing you really need to look at is their raid comp. If you find the perfect guild for you, you look through their parses and you think you’d fit smoothly, and you look again to see their guild has 4 rogues and 2 other ferals you need to just check that guild off your list. Sure a lot of guilds come with the promise if you can out preform their raiders you can have their spot; however, in truthfulness by the time you put in the time for that switch to happen you could of easily got raider rank in a guild that would be more than happy to finally get that feral they’ve been looking for.

It’s a lot of work but once you’ve accomplished all that you are ready for the hard part. Applying to a guild is both time consuming and very frustrating. Most guilds application processes have way too many questions and often ask the same question in multiple ways in order to see how dedicated you are to really making that lasting first impression. The first topic to note comes as no surprise, spelling and grammar counts. As most of you have poked fun in my blog posts from the past this is an issue for me as my grammar and syntax often leaves much to be desired. However, as long as you don’t write like a complete 5 year old often minor grammar issues can be looked over through the process of standing out.

Separating yourself from other ferals is not as hard as people may seem. When a guild ask for a picture of UI include one, but if you’ve ever fraps’d yourself doing an encounter include that as well. A guild being able to watch how you handle yourself from your PoV in a fight is huge. Sure parses can tell you when you use your dps cd’s but a video will explain the thought process even further. I’ve always enjoined watching other ferals do encounters and would love to make a section on the fluiddruid forums to watch people do encounters and offer feedback on the fight like we already do with parses but I digress. Other forms of standing out is mentioning how involved with the class you are. This website and others like it are great for that, simply adding in anywhere on the app that you do go to a feral theory crafting site and participate on numerous forum discussions is huge in helping you gain the advantage over other applicants. These are the types of things needed if your applying to guilds much higher in progression levels then your old guilds.

The last thing to note is personality. No one wants to read an application from a robot. You don’t talk to your friends with single word answers, so remember to add a lot of you to the way you answer a question a guild gives you. If you can make the person in charge of applications laugh then that raises your chances of getting in by a large margin, unless he’s laughing at how horrible you are with enchants or gemming. In which case I suggest you go to the gearing and execution thread on the forums for help with that ;)

Hopefully this post will help push anyone who thinks it might be time for a change into making it, just remember that applying to a new guild is a bit time consuming and it should be. Why would you not want to take time to find out if a guild is going to be the right fit for you if you plan on spending an average of 12 to 20 hours a week with the same people for quite sometime. Just remember never be scared to fill out an app, at worse you don’t get in but at the end of the day nothing really changes right?

I know post like these aren’t the norm, but it’s been awhile since you guys have heard from me so I thought that this would be a topic that would hit home for a lot of people. I’m always looking for off topic things that would make interesting reads for blog posts so if you think you got something feel free to PM me and I’ll see if I can make it work, just as long as I can tie it into something useful for feral’s I’ll give it all good attempts. Feel free to comment on any tips and tricks you use when looking for a guild and let me know if you like these kinds of off topic blogs so I can write more in the future.

As always feel free to PM me with any suggestion or questions for forums, the youtube page (which will be updated soon), or anything in general I am here for you guys after all.

Until next time


  53 Responses to “LF Guild”

  1. I did something similar 3-4 months back, frustrated by poor tanking and raid leading in my long term social guild. Rather than leave on my main, I levelled a second to 85 and then searched for a guild with reasonable progression (i.e some T11 hard modes) but who would accept me attending 2 out of 3 raids a week, or occasionally 1. I then checked their public logs to find their existing feral was worse than me :) Check.

    So far, it’s worked out great. I can raid seriously 2 nights a week feral, and 1-2 nights socially on my “main” – who I turned resto on (I felt I could add more value to the group as heals) – from what I’ve seen, T11 and T12 progress is far more dependant on the quality of your tanks and healers.

    The only thing is that splitting yourself between 2 guilds means people might be resentful that you’re awol from both quite a bit. But it’s worked for me.

    • Yeah I couldn’t even think of being in 2 raiding guilds at the same time.

      I didn’t want to drag the post even logger then it was but I like how you brought up the community aspects of guilds outside of just official guild raids. This seems to be lacking from guilds that I’ve either been a part of or have friends in as WOW has progressed. Which is sad because that is the whole reason why I still have a lot of friends from my first raiding guild.

  2. Excellent timing for this article! I’m also thinking about moving guilds. Well, I’ve made up my mind that I want to move, just finding a good home is hard. Good to get an insight from someone who’s seen both ends of the process. Hope you’re happy in your new guild, Q!

  3. Hi Q, Real nice post, but it just reminded me why I quit WOW. It is just like a real job except I don’t get paid for it. The fun factor has left and gone out of the game.

    For all the othrs who disagree with me I wish you luck in finding your perfect guild.

    • Ha! I understand what you mean, a lot would argue coming to websites like this actually adds to much to the game in terms of difficulty and time commitment.

      Sadly though my brain must be wired backwards because it’s things like this, the fact that the game gets so involved on so many levels that keep me playing even when the content is sort of ehhhh these days.

      Glad to hear all is working out for you though mongo keep hanging around, would hate to see a regular disappear forever.

      • I always liked the research and theory part of the class/game aspects. I still like reading about them and the changes. I just couldn’t take the ‘corporate feel’ of raiding. It’s not so much the grinds that bugged me but what you had to do to see end game content. For example sending in a video of your fighting stype, or parsing logs.

        It just started to seem more like a job than a game. But who knows maybe some day I’ll retun. And reading site like this helps to keep me at least somewhat appraised on what to expect and see.

  4. Between being an officer now for two guilds and having gone guild searching from about a year ago, here’s some advice I can offer other people:

    -If you are interested in a guild, ask to sit in on their Vent/Mumble for a typical raid night: this will give you an idea of their personality especially during raid times. Do they have the stereotypical “Angry Guy” Raid leader? Are they deadly quiet? Do they like to joke around? Are any of these things important to you?

    -For an app with lots of questions, fill it out in notebook or word first so that you don’t mess up any of their webforms. This is especially a good idea if you fill out multiple apps at the same time and they ask similar questions; you can generally copy-paste.

    -Ask questions. Seriously, ask questions. How long have you guys been together? Do you organize any fun nights on non-raiding nights? What do you do if we have an attendance problem due to a holiday or whatnot? Finding a compatible guild is both for the guild itself and for the individual member.

    -Don’t treat the app like a horrible bore of a chore. It gives the impression that you are lazy and won’t listen to or follow directions. If you click on the app and its longer/more complex then you want to make an effort on, close it and move on to the next guild.

  5. One point that seems to escape a lot of applicants is that serious guilds are looking at a lot more than just DPS numbers in log parses.

    DPS is really important, of course, but how about:
    – Avoidable damage taken. (If DPS is up to a reasonable standard, this is by far the next most important thing.)
    – Are you using barkskin/SI to mitigate unavoidable damage?
    – Are you contributing to fight-specific mechanics? For example, how many taunts do you have on spinners in Beth’tilac? Are you casting FF on Alysrazor hatchlings if your raid doesn’t have another source of that debuff? Are you stunning Sons of Flame during Rag intermissions?
    – Are you using healthstones? Lightwells? (Assuming your raid has them, of course.)

    Nobody is going to have perfect performance on everything, but juggling all of the “more than just DPS” factors is what makes someone an asset on heroic Ragnaros.

  6. I never ever ever want to hear a word about my wall of text posts from you again Q.

    • Wall of text:

      Nice well thought out discussion that just happens to be long:


      Endless, clearly you just haven’t been paying enough attention ;)

    • oh boo it just extended the T’s off the page. Well let’s just say there was a lot of them. They formed some sort of text wall if you will.

  7. You’ve got to keep in mind though: some people are giving WoW its last leg and want to see some end game shit, so they go for the best they can, will be there for a month-ish, and then quit the game, a) due to loss of friends from old guild, b) lack of enjoyment from playing, or even c) don’t really get along with the new guild.

    I’ve been in top 30s and as fun as that can be, and though it lasts, because you then have fun on alts when the rest of the world is spam raiding trying to get the content done, it’s not where you were, and you do miss some stuff, try to keep in contact, and slowly but surely drift away.

    I see this post, and it’s the kind of stuff I expect to see when I read apps for our guild. But I think of the ramifications of what would be if I were the one to transfer and look for other guilds when I see people’s apps from other servers. I ask the typical questions: do you intend to transfer with or without a guild invite, would you spend a night or so in mumz listening to a raid to see if it’s the atmosphere you want to be in…

    Another thing to keep in mind… you may never actually hear anything back, and it’s not just because no one read it, but because there is a post on you on the guild forums about +/- of your app, your parses, etc, and that may say “we don’t want them” or “they don’t fit in” and then it gets tossed to the wayside. Just don’t get upset and start sending tells to everyone on the guild list; I hate that, and I’m sure others do to. If they list recruitment officers on the site, find them, otherwise, just wait on a response on the app. If it’s been more than a week, then assume you’re denied.

  8. “If this is the reason your changing guilds then I hope to help make your application process easier with the rest of this post and be reading through the forums, because it takes a hell of a lot of class knowledge to jump from a 1/7 heroic mode guild to a 6/7 heroic mode guild over night.”

    Haha, I did this three weeks ago. Interesting parts: I never apped to the guild, but the GM and 2 of the officers knew that I have wanted to join for a long time, but they already had a decent Feral so I just never bothered. About 3-4 weeks ago, shit hit the fan with my former guild and the GM said I lost my raid slot because of a personality clash or whatever, so I started looking but never actually applied anywhere. The GM cooled down and gave me my raid slot back the next day, so I quit looking.

    Well a fellow player on the server that knew I was good decided to whisper in the ear of the GM of Vagrant Corps, the top 10man guild on the server that I had been wanting to get into. The GM knew I was decent and was impressed with the fact that I was good enough that OTHER people were trying to find me a better guild, so he offered me a slot. I considered it, talked with one of the officers in my guild at the time, and declined the offer.

    The next day, however, I get kicked from the guild for “applying to another guild while we are trying to push progression”, and even though I explained that I never once applied, and that I declined the offer, the GM literally said “Fuck You” and sent me on my way. So I retracted my declination of the offer and over-night moved from a 1/7 to a 6/7 guild.

    • Yeah like I said after it’s very possible; however, it does fail more times then I’ve seen it work. Awesome that your one of the rare cases it worked out for.

  9. Left my last guild around 2 months ago right before 4.2 due to burnout and just not enjoying the atmosphere of the guild with people who only logged in for raids. I’ve yet to join a guild but then again a lot of the time I just didn’t want to raid and wanted to take a break. Just with my work times I have to be very very specific about guilds with my only choices being guilds that raid 10 EST or later (I really don’t get why so many guilds on PST realms raid EST raiding times. They mind as well say they raid at 8 EST). I’ve been in quite a few guilds over the years since it’s pretty hard to find a guild that matches what I want that also raids times I can make.

    At least due to all my hard mode experience in T11 my gear and experience level does allow me to jump right into a guild working on hard modes. The hardest part for me was going through over 500 guilds (I’m not exaggerating) on wowprogress going through each each that was between 6/7 H and 1/7 H, finding guilds that can raid times I can make which really shortens the list and then going into each guilds armory to see how many raiding ferals they have. From that point it comes to looking at the guilds atmosphere to see if it’s a place I may enjoy. From all those guilds I have a list of only 6 of them. :P Main thing with me is that I never ever have multiple applications running so it gets a bit annoying waiting almost a week for a response sometimes but tonight I have a little interview with a guild.

  10. Has the guild centric focus of Cata hurt WOW? That might be an interesting topic to look into. BTW, when I say ‘hurt WOW’ I mean in subscription numbers, but I guess you could expand it to mean their designs of boss fights and raid content.

    • I would argue that it hasn’t been a guild centric focus. Everything Blizz has done in Cata is to destroy 25 man raiding guilds. Same loot from 10’s, Difficulty on 10’s, etc. You don’t have the same community feel in a 10 man guild. In our guild almost every single member of our guild including the ones that don’t raid in the 25 is in someway a branch off the main raid core. They came over because a friend was in the raid core, were trials and stayed, stopped raiding, etc. Honestly I feel that the reason WoW is struggling right now is that the community feel of the game is slowly bleeding to death because of Blizzards lack of focus on the 25 man raids.

      • But wasn’t this the same thing they said about going from 40 man raids to 25 man raids? What I was referring to is in the past PUG raids were possible for slightly out of date content or non-heroic content.

        It is true the high tide for PUGS was WRATH. In TBC you could PUG Kara but not BT (at least not till the very end). But I think many ‘casual’ gamers or even good players that had schedules that prevented them from dedicated raid times could still do PUG raids. On too many servers this is not the case or at least wasn’t case as recently as a couple of months ago.

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