Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

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Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by aggixx » Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:33 pm

Please use this thread to discuss the Flamebender Ka'graz encounter in Blackrock Foundry. As always, please specify raid difficulty when discussing strats - a Heroic tactic may be completely unfeasible in Mythic.
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Amitty
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Amitty » Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:51 pm

What I tried to do here is to keep the dotlines active on the boss and the dogs all the time. It's a bit tricky to get the dotline going on the Range dog.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by aggixx » Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:29 pm

You want to try to have 5 CP when the dogs spawn so you can immediately Rip -> Rake the non-overheated one before it leaves melee range, then you can take care of bleeding up the other one. This way your bleed uptimes don't suffer from the dog chasing people around while fixated.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Dwade » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:23 am

For some reason my guild was struggling pretty mightily with this fight. I was using the advice to save a rip for when the dogs come out, was also trying to use thrash and hit all three at once. Was doing decent until the last 10% both our tanks went down. Not sure if you guys have noticed this as well but if the tanks go down I am always the next person on the threat meter. I was so sick of wiping on this guy that I just kited the boss around for the last 10% until the ranged killed him. It was pretty funny and sad all at the same time. 6:30 is when I begin to tank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXeA0gOq1-E
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Sibylle » Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:29 pm

That was pretty epic, Dwade! You kited her for a full two minutes haha. Gotta show this to my guild (as in, 'why a cat might still be useful in BRF!')
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Batlecruiser » Fri Feb 20, 2015 6:04 am

Excluded from the Raid on mystic, because Feral's Aoe damage is too weak and it's all about aoeing all 4 wolves as fast as possible... -,-

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Nephera » Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:11 am

That sounds harsh. This boss is a joke on mythic, you shouldn't really have any problems. On the other hand, my raid comp is very heavy in AoE, so there's that, but still I don't feel much a liability in there. Second time wolves are up you should have Incarnation back so you can dot them for a bit more (although it might not be so easy...)
Hang on there! I'm sure they'll take you there soon enough :).

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by TheLOOGE » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:58 pm

We just started this on Mythic. Is it worth it to save Inc/Zerk for the dog phase? I don't like reading "Ferals have to sit for this one" just because we lack AoE. Surely we can be beneficial in some other capacity....

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Amitty » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:05 am

You burst with your normal opener (with 3min CDs), but you save the second set of 3min CDs for the dogs. When the dogs spawn you pop CDs+Pot again and put Thrash and Rake on everything. Your strategy for the second set of dogs depends on the amount of time they are going to be alive and their positioning. If they are going to die fast then don't bother putting Rip on them. If they are in your 8 yard range you might even BT Swipe a bit during Berserk. But no matter what never let the dotline drop from the boss.

Ferals are pretty strong on this fight. There is no reaso not to bring one.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Kojiyama » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:20 pm

I haven't done this on Mythic quite yet, but I don't feel like dropping a Feral for 4-target AoE makes a ton of sense. We are still reasonably decent in that scenario. Maybe if your group comp was excessively short on AoE, but otherwise this seems strange.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Eltur » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:37 pm

I think tunneling the boss is working out pretty well.
Having a Trash and a mouseover Rake up for 2-3 dogs seems easy to handle and more than enough since the others are going to DPS it down

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Dwade » Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:25 pm

I don't usually bother with the wolves besides rake and thrash, but it depends on how your group make up is. Mine is pretty melee heavy so we already have to watch our damage on the overheated one to begin with.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by TheLOOGE » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:22 am

Well as I suspected, the raid team feels as though I should be "helping" out more on the dogs. I'm not sure I have any other choice but to burn my first 3 minutes on the first set and pot on the second set. Amazing this sort of thing has to happen practically every tier about once or twice... But I'll do whatever it takes to land this progression kill. Thanks for the insight boys.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Amitty » Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:38 am

Let's see the logs.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by TheLOOGE » Fri Mar 06, 2015 10:42 am

Sure.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AC ... amage-done

I've looked at other top parsing Ferals on this particular encounter and it looks at least my dog damage is on par, maybe slightly less par, than theirs. But one thing remains constant -- ferals still don't "do" dog damage so to speak. But I can tell you this, my boss damage will be crippled if I have to burn 3 mins on dogs which can't be good for later in the fight, especially if we want her dead before the 3rd set of dog spawn.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Kojiyama » Fri Mar 06, 2015 11:40 am

I dunno. On most of those attempts you are on par with the majority of the other melee DPS while being significantly above them on boss damage, I'm not sure I would feel too bad in your position.

Always have to do what you have to do to win on progression fights, but I'm not sure I would bench someone for your parse. (I'd be more inclined to investigate the cause of some of the Hunters issues or that one of your Shadow Priests does about 1m less than the other on the wolves consistently across attempts despite being the same ilevel.)

If I really wanted to sub people to optimize fight performance, I'd pick someone in the lower half of total damage done and replace them with a Fire Mage or 5 rather than the top on boss damage. Just my take on it, anyway.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Amitty » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:01 pm

Just a friendly advice : You stay on the boss too much and your damage suffers from that. What you want to do is Rake all the dogs for as long as they are up while keeping Thrash on as much targets as you can and the dotline on the boss. Rake should be your top damage spell on this fight.
Last edited by Amitty on Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by TheLOOGE » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:11 pm

For most attempts, it [Rake] was top. Keep in mind, some of these attempts we never saw a second dog phase, or we died midway through the first dog spawn. I'll try to Rake more, but what they're scratching their heads over is why I'm not able to keep up with the Demo lock, warrior, enhancement shaman, and combat rogue for dog damage, if that makes any sense...

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Dysheki » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:01 pm

They shouldn't rely on ferals destroying wolves. They can do decent but will not compete with locks/combat rogues/lolstorm warriors etc. Like everyone has said make sure rake/thrash is up on all. Another thing feral excels at for this is if something ends up being higher than the others you can help with a nice FB to help bring it back in line. And when you make it to the second set of wolves your damage will be much better. Probably roughly double your damage against the dogs with CDs, or close to it.

Sometimes the sign of a good raid leader is knowing the strengths and weaknesses of all classes. So just a friendly reminder helps.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Dysheki » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:12 pm

Oh, yeah, you need to rake a lot more. Not sure if you were trying different things but it should be top damage on them.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by TheLOOGE » Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:28 pm

Thanks guys. I've got some ideas that will help boost my dog damage. I, for whatever reason, felt that in order to burst dogs down faster, raking wouldn't yield as much damage as swiping in this specific instance. I'll try Raking more instead.

As Dys said, my damage should come around on the 2nd spawn of dogs as that's when my 3 mins are back up. Then of course tab raking is a no brainer... Again, thanks!

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Millerr » Wed Mar 25, 2015 2:52 pm

Just a PSA for those who are comparing their dog damage to others in their raid, dogs keep taking dot ticks for the remainder of the fight even after they die.

So what that means is classes like DKs and locks that have very long dots are going to have inflated numbers because of the multi-dotting, and the only way to look at actual dog damage is to look at the time frame from when they spawn to just when they die, not overall dog damage.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Amitty » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:25 am

Yep, an overlook that I expected to be hotfixed by now, but it's a non issue for Blizzard apparently.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Dysheki » Fri Mar 27, 2015 2:09 pm

Honestly never paid too much attention to that for this fight. I guess I'll have to sure and rip as much as I can next week lol. But this seems to be the case on fights with adds that have a repeatable mechanic (ie kromog pillars).

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - Flamebender Ka'graz

Post by Hamwich » Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:35 am

For mythic difficulty, my group seems to struggle with positioning the dogs, our officers decided it was best to have ranged who become targeted run to melee for us to cleave down. The issue we run into with this strategy is an increase in singe damage as every one is crowded into a small piece of what is otherwise a very large room.

How are you positioning the 4 wolves? And how are your ranged dps or healers kiting them?

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