Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

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Cantor (Shredable)
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Cantor (Shredable) » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:54 pm

Indeed, but you refresh a point I made earlier on concerning LI - why are we not talking about this talent more? The ONLY place that it would be considered viable is 2-target cleave, and even then, both targets have to be in range and attackable 100% of the time. A talent like that is just awful. I don't expect to spec it more than once per tier at this rate...maybe if Moonfire cleaved (like Balance Sunfire) and/or it gave us an AoE boost (Skillfall as an additional finisher? Possibly over-complex) then it would be worth speccing in to more frequently.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Quicksilver » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:35 am

I really wish LI applied moonfire to 3 targets. That would be a huge aoe boost, and simplify cleave fights for us.
ATM, the ideal way to do maidens would involve moments where you are tracking 9 dots across 3 enemies.. all on seperate timers. I tried doing it on heroic and I just couldn't keep up.. although i have no 2 set bonus so thats probably a big reason

Kiryela
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Kiryela » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:56 pm

Are you guys using Thrash on this fight(with 2 set bonus), i'm still not sure if it's worth unless all 3 of them are on the platform.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by aggixx » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:37 pm

Yes, yes and yes. You should be Thrashing at 2+ targets regardless of if you have the 2p, the difference is that once you get the 2p it becomes your highest priority bleed whereas without it you need 4 enemies for that to be true.
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Helistar
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Helistar » Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:17 am

Any ideas on how to effectively target-switch? We're trying this on HM and apart from the fact that my DPS sucks, it's a nightmare to correctly target-swith to keep DoTs up. I've swithed to LI, so that I can dot from a distance, but I often waste time getting in range of the current target. This also means I have to focus on positioning/correct tabbing and sometimes I end up killed by some mechanics I've missed.
Apart from tabbing (which is somewhat unreliable), I've tried targeting macros, but I would really like a "cycle across targets nearby" key, which is sadly missing :(

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Cantor (Shredable)
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Cantor (Shredable) » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:51 am

Helistar wrote:Any ideas on how to effectively target-switch? We're trying this on HM and apart from the fact that my DPS sucks, it's a nightmare to correctly target-swith to keep DoTs up. I've swithed to LI, so that I can dot from a distance, but I often waste time getting in range of the current target. This also means I have to focus on positioning/correct tabbing and sometimes I end up killed by some mechanics I've missed.
Apart from tabbing (which is somewhat unreliable), I've tried targeting macros, but I would really like a "cycle across targets nearby" key, which is sadly missing :(
I use Shadowed Unit Frames (any unit frame addon would work) to reposition the boss health frames next to my dot timers; I use WA to track my dots on each boss (you can do this by only having the WA track specific unit > boss1, boss2, boss3 etc), then Clique to redot. I use LMB to Rake, RMB for Moonfire, and mousewheel up for Rip. It's certainly more difficult for us, as a melee dot spec, to refresh our debuffs on each boss due to melee range issues that don't occur for ranged DoT classes like Warlocks, but our speed somewhat helps there, although an increased range on Rake wouldn't go amiss.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Helistar » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:12 pm

I'll have a look at the addon you mention, I should probably se up some WA stuff to do multi-target tracking (I use eventhorizon for my dots, but it's single target and I'm not proficient enough in lua to modify it). We managed to down it this evening, even if my DPS sucked (31.2k). I had to use normal-mode 2T over my 685 non-set pieces, which certainly didn't help, but this is no excuse for the fact that I did shit with the DoTs....

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Hamwich » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:30 am

Just beginning to progress on this fight, Heroic Difficulty, as far as openers / rotation, I've always struggled to master the multi-target rotation, I find my self casting a 1-3 CP rip just to keep it up on a target and while I shred in between rakes, I still feel like I'm behind...

Any tips / tricks or is it really, ignore FB unless all three adds have rake/rip/thrash on them?

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Nayni » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:36 am

Hamwich wrote:Just beginning to progress on this fight, Heroic Difficulty, as far as openers / rotation, I've always struggled to master the multi-target rotation, I find my self casting a 1-3 CP rip just to keep it up on a target and while I shred in between rakes, I still feel like I'm behind...

Any tips / tricks or is it really, ignore FB unless all three adds have rake/rip/thrash on them?
Without 2piece you won't be able to maintain a tripple dotline at all. So just focus on 2 rips and 3 rakes + 3xLI (if specced into it).

You're also indeed pretty much never going to use FB outside of Berserk. My opener is on the first page, note that I had 2piece though so it might not be as fluent for you as it was for me.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Hamwich » Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:01 pm

Nayni wrote:
Hamwich wrote:Just beginning to progress on this fight, Heroic Difficulty, as far as openers / rotation, I've always struggled to master the multi-target rotation, I find my self casting a 1-3 CP rip just to keep it up on a target and while I shred in between rakes, I still feel like I'm behind...

Any tips / tricks or is it really, ignore FB unless all three adds have rake/rip/thrash on them?
Without 2piece you won't be able to maintain a tripple dotline at all. So just focus on 2 rips and 3 rakes + 3xLI (if specced into it).

You're also indeed pretty much never going to use FB outside of Berserk. My opener is on the first page, note that I had 2piece though so it might not be as fluent for you as it was for me.
I do have the 2pc, and thanks for the feedback, we rarely got past 50% so I didn't get a feel for how well I was doing with respect to overall DPS, I have not been very successful with LI, but I will be certain to give it a shot.

Also would you recommend 680 Skull (come Tuesday) + Beating heart (665) over LDSC for this encounter? Seems like the multistrike buff / additional agility would be more valuable being that the fight is 10+ min long...for our group at least.

For Reference:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/a ... lls/simple

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Tinderhoof » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:13 pm

Hamwich wrote:shred in between rakes,
Try to resist the urge to Shred like you normally would on this fight. You are going to have to be Raking and Thrashing so much you often make yourself more energy starved by hitting Shred. This is a really long fight on heroic so you are going to have plenty of time to manage your energy while keeping as many bleeds up as possible.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Bysket » Mon Feb 23, 2015 1:46 pm

This issue accompained with attempting to keep the dots rolling on all three bosses is where I ran into some serious problems. I am lacking the 2pc currently, so I found myself constantly running out of energy to refresh the bleeds before they expired. I actually sat out on the guilds first heroic kill last night while I tried to figure out what I was doing wrong. It also didn't help that my four year old decided to change my glyphs for me also...

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Hamwich » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:47 am

Took them out in only a handful of pulls last night, lost out on the gloves sadly, but ran into an issue where for an entire boat phase myself, and the other melee DPS were rendered useless because we were pushing phase 3...

Anyone else seeing this issue? How are your groups approaching the pull? Are you able to push them before the third boat?

One of the officers in our guild was confident it was the initial lust that was creating this issue, as it did lead to a few wipes... but at 12m 26s the kill didn't seem all that quick.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by TheLOOGE » Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:21 am

Hamwich wrote:Anyone else seeing this issue? How are your groups approaching the pull? Are you able to push them before the third boat?

One of the officers in our guild was confident it was the initial lust that was creating this issue, as it did lead to a few wipes... but at 12m 26s the kill didn't seem all that quick.
On Heroic/Normal difficulty, it's definitely possible to "beat" the third boat. However, if the bosses aren't equal in terms of HP, meaning if you managed to push Sorka or someone else to 20% and Marak is still sitting at like 40%, you're going to have a really bad time. I don't have any experience on Mythic yet for this encounter (probably not for a while anyway), but Stenhaldi seemed to suggest that beating the third was a possibility, but not something Midwinter was really aiming to do with their strategy.

If you are confident in your raid team's dps and you have the boss' HP pretty equal and are able to push before a third boat, go for it. But it's like I said, if you push only 1 of them to 20% and the others are still floating at a much higher percentage, it's most likely going to end up as a wipe for you.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Maldros » Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:38 pm

From the point of view of a 2pc BT doing HC tracking bleeds/cds with DroodFocus.
What I do:
Macro /tar for all Maidens, get a rotation like= Marak, Sorka, Garan. Depending on your raid main target.
SR 1st priority;
Rake 2nd priority;
Trash 3rd;
Rip 4th (main target);
Shred 5th (at berserk);

Rake strat: Marak, Sorka, Garan (BT rake on main target + 1, not using it at RIP coz RIP=Rake but different durations) then get back to Marak wait till 5sec then REFRESH everyone in the same order, pool energy (60 would do) it's about 7s to expire on main target.
Trash at Clearcasting or -2s.
Rip almost everytime only at main target, coz we loose a LOT of white swings switching targets and still a big part of dmg.

Seems to work for me, when you have an fixed order for Rake, makes it A LOT easier to maintain almost 100%.
PS.: I'm goin' to boat everytime.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Cynnea » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:48 am

I am having trouble tracking bleeds on all 3 bosses.

In particular, I am now using Shadowed Unit Frames. It shows Rake / Rip / Thrash on the right side of the Boss Frames (right side of my screen, where the blizzard default position was).
This would work great, if I wasn't having a few issues with it.

The issues I am having, is:

1) The Icons look too similar, so it is hard to tell at a glance which bleed needs to be refreshed (might be nice have different colors for the bleeds, or for the border of the bleeds)
2) The bleeds don't show up in the exact same position, so I can't rely on the furthest right bleed being 'Rake', for example.

Being able to use my Weakauras for all 3 bosses would be a great alternative as well, but I am not sure how to set it up for boss 1 / 2 / 3.
I believe I used Pawket's WA setup for bleeds/energy/combo points. It shows up for my current target, but having the bleed icons for all 3 Bosses would be amazing. (I could drag them beside each boss frame)

Any help with my UI issues would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Cantor (Shredable) » Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:08 am

Cynnea, I also use SUF and WeakAuras to track my bleeds, plus Clique to cast Rake/Rip/MF without target switching. You can set up a WA to track your dots for each boss – create a WA for each debuff, position it where you want on-screen (I have mine right below each boss frame) and then in the 'Trigger' menu, tick 'Specific Unit' and enter boss1 / boss2 / boss3 etc.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Rayen » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:19 pm

With the LI buff any solid arguments possible to be made to a stubborn raid leader that forces you to go on the boat (still) after all our buffs? I know I should be on the platform but our RL doesn't like to "change" people that do mechanics.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by artsdruid » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:13 pm

i would try to sit on bosses the whole time, or for my guild i only do the first boat because we push the one that doesnt need a tank (commander i think), then the rest of the time i stay n bosses while 2nd tank does boats. still very competitive dmg output that way without 2pc, using li. now i have 2peice, and i will use li still since its pretty substantial i saw while doing a quick mythic twins in highmaul.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by inseedious » Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:14 pm

Rayen wrote:With the LI buff any solid arguments possible to be made to a stubborn raid leader that forces you to go on the boat (still) after all our buffs? I know I should be on the platform but our RL doesn't like to "change" people that do mechanics.
Even before the buff, feral was one of the best classes for this fight, especially thanks to the great synergy between Inc cd and moments in which you can dps on all the 3 maidens. A good argumentation is to send there a class that doesn't shine in 2 targets cleave, cause with enough damage on the platform one boat can be skipped, at least on hc difficulty.
After this weekly farm, I would add that Feral is maybe top 3 in 2-3 targets cleave thanks to LI buff.
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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Cynnea » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:16 pm

Cantor (Shredable) wrote:Cynnea, I also use SUF and WeakAuras to track my bleeds, plus Clique to cast Rake/Rip/MF without target switching. You can set up a WA to track your dots for each boss – create a WA for each debuff, position it where you want on-screen (I have mine right below each boss frame) and then in the 'Trigger' menu, tick 'Specific Unit' and enter boss1 / boss2 / boss3 etc.
Alright, thanks for the help. When I get time later this week, I'll try setting it up and play around with it until it feels right.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Nephera » Fri Mar 06, 2015 6:47 pm

Mythic:
Veeery boring and long fight. It's really beneficial to get on the boats and I see absolutely no reason why you wouldn't be doing that. In damage done to the boat adds I was constantly quite a bit above others sent with me and also on Admirals boat I was able to actually help the healer with healing, as the add hits for a lot. On Maraks boat I saved the tanks bacon few pulls too, he was really happy to have me there (and if one of the dps moved too slow from the pool I could top them back up).
There was no problem at all with the bosses HPs, we even had to stop DPS for a bit to wait for boat peoples CDs, so we were standing for around 20s doing nothing.
Oh, and it definitely is more diverse if you go on the boats, so you're less likely to fall asleep! :D
(Am I the only one that has this much fun offhealing? Well, dotting all three of them with Lunar Inspiration on heroic just after I got my 2p was probably the most fun I had this tier, but maaan, offhealing, am I right?!)

As for the talents, I obviously took Bloodtalons since I was on the boat. Took Nature's Vigil too, think it had a bit of use on the boats and you have it up for the last phase when Marak's hitting everyone really hard and you're bursting her with CDs. Had Displacer Beast but I used it solely to come back from Rapid Fire. You don't need more movement speed at the boats (and I used Stampeding Roar when we were jumping off the hooks so everyone could get into their position faster) and not really on the land too, so I guess that's your best choice.

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by CowPond » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:47 am

At first I found this fight so taxing, but since I got my 2pc it's my new favorite fight. I'm still energy starved at times, usually after making sure I have full dots on which ever boss is going to boat and SR is starting to run out. When all 3 bosses are down the dot management is actually easier. Not only b/c bombardment is over, but I just know there is always one target needing rake and moonfire. I need to prioritize thrash a lot more.
Question about the opener, I've been shredding with bzkr/incar b/c I feel I'm wasting time switching targets. I suppose some are good enough players to be able to switch before GCD, I just feel more comfortable getting that 5cp rip then switching. Is this a significant loss you think? Also should I be swiping instead of shred w/ incarn?

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Tumpor » Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:06 am

CowPond wrote:...usually after making sure I have full dots on which ever boss is going to boat and SR is starting to run out...
Didn't someone say that the bleeds stop ticking when one of them goes to the boat?

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Re: Blackrock Foundry - The Iron Maidens

Post by Leafkiller » Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:39 pm

Has anyone tried Glyph of Rake on this fight? With LI and mouseover/clique to put the dots on the two non-targeted mobs, this could cut way down on the small positional adjustments, at least during Incarnation.

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