Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by aggixx » Fri Oct 10, 2014 10:54 am

Hwarra wrote:But won't it hurt if we have low haste + no SotW to regen energy a bit quicker? I play with SotW because I usually lack the energy if I play without it. Im considering using FoN as 6.0 hits the live servers, but I am afraid I will be lacking energy most of the times

Also, about snapshoting. Lets assume Im still wearing RoRo after 6.0 hits. Basically, if I apply Rip with SR and TR, and after that RoRo procs.. even if I apply new Rip it won't work? I mean, it won't be applied or it will have the same amount as previous one? Not sure if I put this right but I didnt have a chance to test this on beta/ptr, so.. :f
I think most players overestimate the value of haste in terms of the tangible impact on your gameplay. Yes, if you were running Rune before and you drop down to a low-haste setup it is going to be a bit of a drop in regen, but I don't think you'll feel its very significant, if you even notice it at all. Having played the WoD Beta a fair bit I can say that the addition of Pandemic to our bleeds make a massive difference in ease of DoT maintenance. If I can trivially maintain SR and all my DoTs in shitty gear at level 100 then there's no way it will be an issue at 90.

Also, Assurance of Consequence gives you toooons of energy since it reduces the cooldown of TF to 13.662s, if you're using one (which you should be if you can, like the guide says) I'm pretty sure you're going to be worrying more about drowning in energy rather than starving of it.

When Rune of Reorigination procs, all of your bleeds will immediately start doing more damage to reflect the change in mastery; you no longer have to reapply a bleed for the stat change to take effect. The flipside to this is that even if you do apply a new bleed, it stops benefitting as soon as the proc ends, which means the amount of time our bleeds benefit from the proc is significantly reduced compared to 5.4. This is why you will see such a shift towards direct damage in our damage breakdown and the greatly reduced value of mastery on single targets.
Hwarra wrote:Item restoration is your friend :D
Yeah I forgot to look into that, got too caught up in guide editing! It may have been too long ago to restore though, so we'll have to see.
Ahh and one more thing. You are going to update this guide once again when WoD is released, right?
Yes, I plan to update it the week prior to launch.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Hwarra » Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:18 am

Also, Assurance of Consequence gives you toooons of energy since it reduces the cooldown of TF to 13.662s, if you're using one (which you should be if you can, like the guide says) I'm pretty sure you're going to be worrying more about drowning in energy rather than starving of it.
Got even 3 of those, but none of them is warforged, sadly..
When Rune of Reorigination procs, all of your bleeds will immediately start doing more damage to reflect the change in mastery; you no longer have to reapply a bleed for the stat change to take effect. The flipside to this is that even if you do apply a new bleed, it stops benefitting as soon as the proc ends, which means the amount of time our bleeds benefit from the proc is significantly reduced compared to 5.4. This is why you will see such a shift towards direct damage in our damage breakdown and the greatly reduced value of mastery on single targets.
Oh, I see. So its dynamic bleed damage? Like: Trinket procs with +100 mastery, current bleeds strength will be amplified by this proc for the duration of it. After proc is over, bleed strength goes back to its original number?
So there is actually no need to track bleed strength anymore? I mean, if addons like DroodFocus ain't getting update with 6.0/WoD, they won't track bleed strength in right way (showing that you can apply stronger ones, because current were not applied with SR/TR buff). I mean, I tried to use TellMeWhen or Weak Auras, but I got way too used with DroodFocus. I hope someone, if not an author, is going to update it :/

And thanks for answering all my questions :) You deserve a nice, cuddly panda ^^

Ahh and pots. Is it intended that MoP ones are weaker than Cata/WOTLK ones? I noticed you mentioned that in the guide but it seems a bit odd..

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by lazycat » Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:34 am

and some of the enchants suggested are like bc level, not likely intended, just a weird side effect of that stat squish.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by aggixx » Fri Oct 10, 2014 11:38 am

Hwarra wrote:Oh, I see. So its dynamic bleed damage? Like: Trinket procs with +100 mastery, current bleeds strength will be amplified by this proc for the duration of it. After proc is over, bleed strength goes back to its original number?
So there is actually no need to track bleed strength anymore? I mean, if addons like DroodFocus ain't getting update with 6.0/WoD, they won't track bleed strength in right way (showing that you can apply stronger ones, because current were not applied with SR/TR buff). I mean, I tried to use TellMeWhen or Weak Auras, but I got way too used with DroodFocus. I hope someone, if not an author, is going to update it :/
Stats are dynamics but damage multipliers from abilities like Savage Roar, Tiger's Fury, and Bloodtalons still snapshot so there is still some things to pay attention to if you want to min/max. An addon could track that for you to make things a bit easier but its certainly nothing you couldn't do manually.
Hwarra wrote:Ahh and pots. Is it intended that MoP ones are weaker than Cata/WOTLK ones? I noticed you mentioned that in the guide but it seems a bit odd..
I wouldn't call it intentional, but I imagine they are aware of it and have chosen not to fix it. It's a lot of work to fix something that's primarily only relevant in this couple week period and then goes back to being an obscure optimization for twinks and such where it doesn't affect most players.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by aggixx » Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:36 pm

Changed weapon enchant from Massacre to Mongoose as it is a little bit better.

I also updated the stat weights to some more accurate sims; the old scale delta was pretty low and was causing some rather inexact results, and I adjusted my stat and gearing suggestions to reflect that.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Meaningless » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:04 am

What about gemming for haste/crit instead of agi/crit?
Shows a slight dps increase for me (Tho I'm not using your exact bis list as I'm missing 2 items).
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by aggixx » Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:37 pm

That's a good point. I originally had haste/crit in red sockets but when I decided to suggest a mastery focus instead of haste I changed it. It does seem to be the better option (albeit slightly) from the weights although those are generated using an even stat breakdown so things might be different if you were to stack a lot of crit and haste. I'll take a look.

Edit: Okay, Crafty (Crit/Haste) is better for all 4 scenarios I'm testing so I've updated the guide to suggest that. Sorry if anyone "has to" buy a bunch of new gems but that's just the way the cookie crumbles I guess.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Spanja » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:17 am

Is it possible to apply Back: Enchant Cloak - Greater Agility on the 616 cloak ?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by scorpio0920 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:51 am

Spanja wrote:Is it possible to apply Back: Enchant Cloak - Greater Agility on the 616 cloak ?
Some people don't have the legendary cloak.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Kioga » Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:07 pm

scorpio0920 wrote:
Spanja wrote:Is it possible to apply Back: Enchant Cloak - Greater Agility on the 616 cloak ?
Some people don't have the legendary cloak.
ALL of the suggested enchants say "cannot be applied to items over 600." Blizz may grandfather in whatever enchant you currently have on your cloak (so just slap the agi one on it Mon night) or worse case scenario, all enchants are disabled on legendary cloaks since they shouldn't be able to be applied to anything over 600.

Anyone on the Beta notice if their cloak enchants were still working?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by aggixx » Sun Oct 12, 2014 12:40 pm

Yeah I already put the enchant on my cloak. I would check PTR/Beta but I don't have a copied character and I think char copy is down as well.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by ShmooDude » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:23 pm

aggixx wrote:Yeah I already put the enchant on my cloak. I would check PTR/Beta but I don't have a copied character and I think char copy is down as well.
I can apply Accuracy (12 crit) on beta to that cloak (only thing I had mats for). Though I don't have a WoD ilvl 600+ cloak to test whether the restriction actually works or not.

There's any number of ways I can think that it would be able to take the low level enchants. In the past, items have been sorted by expansion, so the restriction could be based on that, in addition to the ilvl. Or its base ilvl (600) is sufficient to allow enchants to work. So I wouldn't be surprised if you can put whatever enchant you want on it.

One thing I am surprised about is that they haven't nerfed the cloak's proc yet. The proc is powerful enough to surpass even mythic cloaks on single target last time I tried it. They probably just haven't gotten around to it though.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Kioga » Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:17 pm

ShmooDude wrote:I can apply Accuracy (12 crit) on beta to that cloak (only thing I had mats for). Though I don't have a WoD ilvl 600+ cloak to test whether the restriction actually works or not.

There's any number of ways I can think that it would be able to take the low level enchants. In the past, items have been sorted by expansion, so the restriction could be based on that, in addition to the ilvl. Or its base ilvl (600) is sufficient to allow enchants to work. So I wouldn't be surprised if you can put whatever enchant you want on it.

One thing I am surprised about is that they haven't nerfed the cloak's proc yet. The proc is powerful enough to surpass even mythic cloaks on single target last time I tried it. They probably just haven't gotten around to it though.
Are you testing on a lvl 100 toon? I have heard the proc seems OP through lvl 99 and then shuts off at 100.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Spanja » Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:58 pm

BTW on the simc page, the chest enchant used is +5 all stats (https://code.google.com/p/simulationcra ... _T16M.simc) ",enchant=5all" but on the first page of this thread, it's mentioned Enchant Chest - Exceptional Stats as best.

The simc is not up to date ?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Raysere » Sun Oct 12, 2014 3:48 pm

Kioga wrote:Are you testing on a lvl 100 toon? I have heard the proc seems OP through lvl 99 and then shuts off at 100.
My Cloak didn't proc at all in the Heroic Dungeon I just ran, but it seems to proc as normal in the open world.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by aggixx » Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:49 pm

Spanja wrote:BTW on the simc page, the chest enchant used is +5 all stats (https://code.google.com/p/simulationcra ... _T16M.simc) ",enchant=5all" but on the first page of this thread, it's mentioned Enchant Chest - Exceptional Stats as best.

The simc is not up to date ?
Yes the simc profile is not up to date yet. I was hoping to see if the +6 stat enchant actually gives +6 (since wowhead seems to think it gives 3 when you view it on the enchant search) but I wasn't able to.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by rahba » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:25 pm

Darkmoon Firewater is 132 AP, kinda dumb but I think that puts it slightly ahead of the cata flask.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by ShmooDude » Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:35 pm

Raysere wrote:
Kioga wrote:Are you testing on a lvl 100 toon? I have heard the proc seems OP through lvl 99 and then shuts off at 100.
My Cloak didn't proc at all in the Heroic Dungeon I just ran, but it seems to proc as normal in the open world.
Hmm, yeah, I think I heard that somewhere before. I guess maybe its disabled in instances only? It works at 100 in the open world though.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Arctagon » Sun Oct 12, 2014 10:55 pm

May I ask exactly what the trinket rankings show? Is it the DPS you would do if you had that trinket, and that trinket only, equipped? Or are both trinket slots filled? If it's DPS with one trinket at a time, I'm guessing 'Baseline' is with no trinkets? I'm not entirely sure how to interpret that list. (I'd also be interested in knowing how to create a ranking like that in SimC.)

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by aggixx » Mon Oct 13, 2014 12:32 am

Arctagon wrote:If it's DPS with one trinket at a time, I'm guessing 'Baseline' is with no trinkets?
Yes, this. The comparison was made with a file like this and CLI SimC, but you could do the same sort of thing with the GUI as well I imagine.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Arctagon » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:43 am

Ah, thank you very much!

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by aggixx » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:12 pm

I've removed the stuff about enchants and consumables from old expansions per Watcher's tweet here.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Tinderhoof » Mon Oct 13, 2014 2:18 pm

Things like this are why I hate having to rush guides out so quickly. Keep delaying my Wowhead guide cause I know stuff like this is going to keep changing. Can't put it off anymore though.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Simbba » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:08 pm

I only have a regular AoC should I use it or get something else? missing like 3 pieces from BiS list you have on wowhead. Guess ill check once I get home see how my dps is simming.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Thejnkz » Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:42 pm

Wouldn't Reality Ripper Ring be BiS?

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