Mistakes and their impact

Face-rippin fun.

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Mistakes and their impact

Post by Searinox » Thu May 19, 2011 3:26 am

FIRSTLY: Hello. You probably guessed it. I am yet another one of those stalkers who has been reading theorycraft, TFD posts, these forums, and several other places for some time. And at some point, a question pops up and it just itches me to talk about it, and so I signed up on the forum.

I have been playing around with Mew and the raid dummy. I know I'm behind by about 2k dps in raids compared to what Mew says I should be doing, but let me start with the beginning: raider's dummy.

When comparing Mew self-buffed dummy damage with personal dps there is an about 100 dps disparity. Yes, I know the simulator is best-case scenario. What I'm interested in, is this:

If you could give mistakes a numerical score, what would that score be? How much worse is 2 seconds of Rip dropping off compared to Rake or SR? How many seconds in advance is it worth it is it to clip bleeds when TF active? How many more seconds does it become worth clipping while procs like Heedless Carnage and Synapse Springs are active? What about when both are active at the same time?

I figure that if I knew these things, I'd know when it'd be worth it to endeavor and concentrate efforts on preventing one thing or acting upon another thing for extra DPS and which mistakes I can afford to make more than others, AND by how much. I am well aware of the few basic ones for example rip drop > rake drop > SR drop but for example, I don't currently know where SotP stands, or Synapse Springs.

Is there any way to test this? Can I deduct it from the numbers Mew is producing?


Character - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/w ... a/advanced
Mew Profile -

Code: Select all

{buffs: {"Buff.StatMult": true, "Buff.MajorHaste": false, "Buff.UnholyFrenzy": false, "Buff.Crit": true, "Buff.AgiStr": false, "Buff.APMult": false, "Buff.DamageMult": false, "Buff.TricksOfTheTrade": false, "Buff.DarkIntent": false, "Buff.MeleeHaste": false, "Buff.SpellHaste": false}, stat: {hitRating: 408, race: "Night Elf", strength: 112, expertiseRating: 113, attackPower: 812, level: 85, masteryRating: 1954, weaponDPS: 703.3, hasteRating: 1781, critRating: 701, agility: 4622}, statProps: {RelentlessMeta: true, ArmorSpec: true}, statConsumables: {Flask: "None", PrePotion: false, Mixology: false, Potion: "None", Food: "None"}, statProcs: {s74197: false, i58181: true, i58180: false, s82180: false, i62469: false, i62468: false, i65118: false, i59506: false, i65026: false, i62051: false, i59224: false, s54999: false, i59520: true, i65140: false, i59441: false, i56394: false, s74246: false, i59473: false, i65072: false, s74223: false, i59461: false, s74497: false, s82175: true, s75178: false}, class: "yawning.mew.pivot.MewPivotFeralDruidCat", talents: {"Talent.HeartOfTheWild": 0, "Talent.PredatoryStrikes": 2, "Talent.BrutalImpact": 2, "Talent.BloodInTheWater": 2, "Talent.Furor": 2, "Talent.Stampede": 2, "Talent.LeaderOfThePack": 1, "Talent.Berserk": 1, "Talent.PrimalMadness": 2, "Talent.EndlessCarnage": 2, "Talent.FeralAggression": 2, "Talent.FeralCharge": 1, "Talent.FurySwipes": 3, "Talent.FeralSwiftness": 2, "Talent.RendAndTear": 3, "Talent.MasterShapeshifter": 1, "Talent.PrimalFury": 2, "Talent.KingOfTheJungle": 3}, glyphs: {"Glyph.FeralCharge": true, "Glyph.FerociousBite": false, "Glyph.TigersFury": false, "Glyph.Shred": true, "Glyph.SavageRoar": false, "Glyph.Berserk": true, "Glyph.Mangle": false, "Glyph.Rip": true}, model: {generateRsv: true, blizzardBugProps: {"Bug.GlyphOfShredSimCraft": true}, bloodInTheWaterTime: 0, targetCastTime: 0.0, aggressiveRavage: false, simulatorProps: {"Simulator.Iterations": 2000, "Simulator.Threads": 0, "Simulator.Rebirth": false, "Simulator.HighResHz": true, "Simulator.AssumeExternalBleed": false, "Simulator.AssumeExternalMangle": true, "Simulator.DurationJitter": 0, "Pivot.ReseedPRNG": false, "Simulator.Tranquility": false, "Simulator.AssumeExternalFF": true}, encounterDuration: 660, toskkProps: {"Toskk.AssumeExternalMangle": false, "Toskk.ModelOpener": false, "Toskk.UseMangle": false, "Toskk.OoCShredOnly": false, "Toskk.AssumeExternalBleed": false, "Toskk.AssumeExternalFF": false, "Toskk.UseMaxSR": false}, feralChargeTravelTime: 0, active: "Simulator", targetCastInterval: 0.0, rsvStatScale: 0}, statSetBonuses: {Tier_11_4pc: true, Tier_10_4pc: false, Tier_11_2pc: true, Tier_10_2pc: false, PvP_gloves: false}, debuffs: {"Debuff.BleedDmg": true, "Debuff.PhysVuln": true, "Debuff.ShatteringThrow": false, "Debuff.SpellCrit": false, "Debuff.Armor": false, "Debuff.SpellVuln": false}}
Actual dummy DPS - http://img580.imageshack.us/img580/6789 ... 210223.jpg

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Re: Mistakes and their impact

Post by Leafkiller » Thu May 19, 2011 12:20 pm

Welcome to the posting side of the forums!

It is possible to measure the cost of mistakes - at the cost of some programming time. The mew simulation code is written in Java and can be tweaked in all sorts of ways. For example, you could change the code to wait two seconds until after Rip dropped off before refreshing it. You could even write the code to do that at specific times during the fight.

To a large degree that is already taken care of in the sim rotation though. The order that the different skills are applied is based on repeated test runs optimizing for the highest possible DPS. While that does not take into account the cost of user mistakes, it does take into account the relative priorities of the abilities through an entire encounter including times when the simulator is energy starved and multiple abilities are coming off of cooldown at the same time.

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Re: Mistakes and their impact

Post by shinryu » Fri May 20, 2011 3:53 am

This would be kinda interesting to see, I remember on one of the rogue threads on EJ (like the assassination one), it showed in descending order the impact of making a mistake, like not refreshing one ability, letting something fall off, etc etc. Though honestly, for feral it'd probably be quite a bit simpler, as stuff like Rip falling off is major during the execution phase is huge, not refreshing Rake, etc in comparison to say, letting SR fall off.

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Re: Mistakes and their impact

Post by Qbear » Fri May 20, 2011 5:06 am

It's funny I read this thread and decided I'd just wait for leaf to see it. Now I'm looking through it again I just now noticed you beat on that poor dummy for 20.1mil damage?! You clearly got more stamina for truth and justice then I do sir /bow

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Re: Mistakes and their impact

Post by Searinox » Fri May 20, 2011 6:50 am

I usually beat on dummies for a very long time to make sure the rotation gets well embedded in my head, which is why I'm putting so much thought into the mistakes. I try to practice hard to get in the habit of knowing how to avoid them but eliminating them altogether is impossible. Sometimes though, two or more things may be in danger of messing up and if I focus to fix one I have to sacrifice the other. That's where it becomes important to know these things.

Apart from mistakes I am also interested in knowing how much benefit I could get from reapplying a bleed when particular buffs are active. I do not know how to use the source to make the bleeds drop off early sadly. Even then I assume calculating the benefit of bleeds reapplied with buffs up is even more challenging. Sometimes I see stuff like TF+HC+SS and I can't help but wonder what if I reapplied bleeds then, even if my current ones are only halfway done. There is little in-depth research on these things.

And thank you Qbear, I take it as a compliment coming from someone so expecienced.

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