Expertise and caps in general

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Expertise and caps in general

Post by goryus » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:38 pm


Trying to conclude on a question I've been thinking about for a while:

I accidentaly got my hand of the "Distant Land" which should be considered an upgrade from my "Lightborn Spire".

I noticed I actually did not have single item with expertise anymore. Does anyone gem for expertise, or is it as I concluded the last cap we are going to try fulfil?

As a semi-casual I prioritize:

Hit cap.
Softcap Ar-pen.

Should this be the way to go, or should I sacrifice a lot of Agi - for expertise?


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Re: Expertise and caps in general

Post by Purecadence » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:28 am

Expertise should be completely capped.

Best way about helping this is the T10 legs. Its got alot of expertise in it. Expertise cap is 26, this is 132 expertise with talents.

For hit rating the cap is 8% (7% if you get a draenei in a raid if your alli).

Hit rating doesnt need to be capped. It helps if you are but when you get to a point where armor pen is worth so much, it means dropping some hit to achieve closer to the armor pen caps works out a net dps gain.

Right now im running 153 hit rating and i get a draenei. I end up with just under 6% hit in a raid. Thats 2% off the cap. ... urecadence

if you want to check out my armory.

According to rawr in a raid armor pen for me is worth 3.3 dps per armor pen where hit is 2.3 dps.

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Re: Expertise and caps in general

Post by goryus » Mon Jun 07, 2010 2:30 am

Brilliant, I have to suffer the fact that Toravon refuses to drop the pants! (Do I really wanna se a giant drop his pants?!)

(Ran it on every available occation, and still have not even seen feral gear)

Starting to stock my emblems once more then.
This could also conclude that Distant Land is rated better than Lightborn Spire?

Alaron, know you in your cat gearing guide promised to make one for 25 man, but I can't find it? Was that one blogged?

Goryus (Scarshield Legion, EU)

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Re: Expertise and caps in general

Post by Dabeasty » Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:03 am

Distant Land is WAY better than Lightborn Spire.

As for Hit (263) and Expertise (132) the concensus seems to be that they are desirable but not essential. Most would not recommend gemming for them whilst Agi/Ar Pen is still of value (eg you arent ar pen or crit capped).

Im running with hit and expertise way under the caps. I have a plan to get them nearer but need a couple of bits of gear to do so without sacrificing my ar pen hard cap and crit.

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Re: Expertise and caps in general

Post by Alaron » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:51 am


Your stat priorities are decent. Agi or ArPen is superior to hit/expertise mathematically, but hit/exp provides a more consistent benefit and makes executing a rotation easier.

Generally, your main sources of expertise are the T10 pants (as pure mentioned) and the crafted 264 LW boots. I don't have access to armory to check right now, but I believe just those two items combined with PP should put you pretty close to cap.

Oh, and yeah, I never did the ICC-25 version of the cat gearing guide. It's actually quite a bit of work to do (formatting, wowhead links for each, etc.) and after doing heroic/ICC10 back-to-back, I shelved the 25M version for a while...and, yeah.

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Re: Expertise and caps in general

Post by goryus » Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:16 am

Thanks for reponse, and as usual there is not a solid one-easy answer =)

About your other Cat-guide, you should put them up under "resources", since they are the best gearing guides out there.
(Atleast after what I found, since BiS does not interest me)


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Re: Expertise and caps in general

Post by Goodmongo » Wed Jun 23, 2010 10:29 am

I have spent hours and hours on Toskks calculator loking at hit, expertise, agility and ArP. What I have found is that the answers will depend on if you have the 4 piece T10 bonus or not. The bonus make rake crittable which results in a 6% to 8+% dps increase.

I have the Needle Encrusted trinket, Whispering Fang and Death's Choice trinkets. I also have Distant lands as weapon. So here is what I found out.

Without the 4 piece bonus ArP and soft cap with the needle encrusted trinket are higher weighted then hit/exp/agi/crit. It even suggest regemming to get to soft cap.

However, with the 4 piece bonus everything changes. Agi/hit/expand even crit are more important then ArP. ArP does steadily gain in importance till around 1000 passive ArP when it then becomes the most important thing to get. The Needle Encrusted trinket and soft cap never get rated higher then the other two trinkets. Agi is rated higher then hit/exp but not by much.

So what this means to me is look for sockets that offera bonus if you stack hit in them. Try to enchant for expertise. Once you get hit up past 200 to 220 and expertise at 22+ then you can go back to gemming agi/crit.

Hope this helps a little.

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