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Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:46 am
by dreamx
Hey fellow ferals. I've been looking around trying to find the dps difference between HoTW Vs DoC for the upcomming 5.4 patch but I seem to not be able to find any math being done between the two. So I turn here to see if anyone has actually done any testing.

And if Hotw comes out on top would it be good old wrath spam or just as passive for the agi?

Again, i'm not interested in the utility between the speccs as we all know Heart of the Wild is far better than DoC when it comes from a pure utility perspective. I'm just after the dps difference.

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:11 am
by Lyones
DoC is a minor (3%) dps increase over HotW in Perfect Conditions according with the last theorycraft.

Is most situations, HotW is expected to perform better in terms of Damage and, of course, Utility.

If you want actual numbers, you gonna have to wait for Aggix and the others. =D

Oh, I don`t know about wrath spamming, but I don`t think it`s viable as it used to be. ( When Wrath Spam was the way to go, Wrath bonus was 500%, and it got reduced to 300ish% when they nerved it)

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:20 am
by feralminded
Hurricane, on the other hand, is still legitimately bananapants.

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:48 pm
by Tinderhoof
With a good SP weapon Wrath spam is about even with our normal dps out put so not really a solid choice. Hurricane as sated above is still beastly for sustained AOE.

Unless we see some changes HotW will be the only useful 90 talent for raiding. The minor sim'd damage difference between DoC HotW will not likely be sustainable in real raiding situations by humans. So we are left with HotW.

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:16 pm
by Alpheus
Tinderhoof wrote:With a good SP weapon Wrath spam is about even with our normal dps out put so not really a solid choice. Hurricane as sated above is still beastly for sustained AOE.

Unless we see some changes HotW will be the only useful 90 talent for raiding. The minor sim'd damage difference between DoC HotW will not likely be sustainable in real raiding situations by humans. So we are left with HotW.
Is that still with RoRo? Would it make sense to reforge in such a way that the caster weapon would proc haste?

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:41 pm
by Tinderhoof
You mean Rune? Cause I don't what this stupid "RoRo" thing is. It really shouldn't be hard to make your caster weapon make Rune proc something that isn't Mastery.

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:04 pm
by Alpheus
Tinderhoof wrote:You mean Rune? Cause I don't what this stupid "RoRo" thing is. It really shouldn't be hard to make your caster weapon make Rune proc something that isn't Mastery.
Well, yes - it's a slightly styled acronym for Rune of Re-Origination. I know it's easy to set up, but I was referring to your post about HotW with wrath spam being close to even - is that with a trinket that's made to benefit wrath spam or a different one, like AoC.

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:06 pm
by raffy
I have support in Catus for Wrath and Hurricane use, I just haven't done much with it because by the time I got it implemented back in 5.1? it was already nerfed. I'll try to get these feature's enabled, so the Cleave encounter can use Hotwcane and the single-target encounter has the option of Wrath spamming. The "Weapon Swap" mini paper doll (below the main paperdoll) is what's used when/if you swap weapons. There's a Swap button, so it's easy to verify your stat balance after swapping.

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:10 pm
by Alpheus
raffy wrote:I have support in Catus for Wrath and Hurricane use, I just haven't done much with it because by the time I got it implemented back in 5.1? it was already nerfed. I'll try to get these feature's enabled, so the Cleave encounter can use Hotwcane and the single-target encounter has the option of Wrath spamming. The "Weapon Swap" mini paper doll (below the main paperdoll) is what's used when/if you swap weapons. There's a Swap button, so it's easy to verify your stat balance after swapping.
Any idea if the cleave trinket works off of single "ticks" from AoE spells like hurricane?

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:15 pm
by raffy
http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 475#p18475
Silly Stenhaldi didn't check Hurricane :P
I'd guess 99.99% likelihood it proc's Multistrike and Cleave. And Flurry of Xuen proc's on Harmful Spell.

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:36 pm
by Alpheus
raffy wrote:http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 475#p18475
Silly Stenhaldi didn't check Hurricane :P
I'd guess 99.99% likelihood it proc's Multistrike and Cleave. And Flurry of Xuen proc's on Harmful Spell.
I just ran a series on the PTR and Multistrike seemed to work on Hurricane with a fairly decent proc chance. The Cleave trinket sadly only seemed to proc mangle and melee hits (didn't get procs for wrath either but might have had a fairly small sample).

Wraths cast with HotW should seriously award combo points :)

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:48 pm
by aggixx
To be honest, the active portion of Heart of the Wild hasn't had a serious damage analysis in a while aside from "Hurricane is good". One more thing on the pile to sort out before the patch comes out I guess! Although it sounds like raffy has a handle on things.
Lyones wrote:DoC is a minor (3%) dps increase over HotW in Perfect Conditions according with the last theorycraft.
Don't overstress the "perfect conditions" part. The SimC results are "done" by a computer yes, but it's programmed to have below average reaction times and other measures to put out realistic results. Realistically it's not that hard for a human to pull more DPS with DoC than HotW if they understand what they're doing.

I'd say, for people that aren't really a fan of DoC you can pick HotW and call it a day. If you enjoy DoC then you have to make a choice between the two weighing the value of the utility to the raid vs your enjoyment of the encounter and some small amount of DPS, and in some cases you may want to pick HotW regardless because of Hurricane. Hardcore raiders will lean towards HotW but if you're casual or semi-hardcore then you can play whichever.

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:02 pm
by raffy
Does Capacitive Meta work with Wrath/Hurricane?

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:06 pm
by aggixx
From my testing earlier it didn't proc once in the whole 45 seconds of Hurricane spam, but I wasn't looking at that specifically.

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:52 pm
by raffy
No meta procs during Harmful Spell casts.

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:59 am
by Alpheus
aggixx wrote:From my testing earlier it didn't proc once in the whole 45 seconds of Hurricane spam, but I wasn't looking at that specifically.
I made the same observation. No procs during HotW/wrath spamming for 2 HOTW's

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:59 pm
by dreamx
I appreciate all of the responses, thank you!

Re: Level 90 Talents in patch 5.4

Posted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:45 pm
by raffy