4PC T16 opener.

Face-rippin fun.

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Qualiti
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4PC T16 opener.

Post by Qualiti » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:45 pm

In regards to aggixx's post: http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 475#p19018
For profiles using DoC, 4pT16, Rune of Re-Origination and either Haromm's Talisman or Ticking Ebon Detonator, the following opener is higher DPS than the normal:
Healing Touch
Cat Form
Savage Roar
Virmen's Bite
Prowl
Tiger's Fury
Savage Roar
Ravage
Berserk / Synapse Springs
Rip

This is much stronger if you have a 549 Rune as that grants you a guaranteed Rune proc on your first of every encounter. See this pretty chart:
http://www.wolframalpha.com/share/clip? ... eafdf08g1i

I've made the necessary adjustments for this to be used for applicable profiles, and I've also committed the changes in Shmoo's post above with some minor modifications that we discussed.
edit: Timberhoof wins the game with his intelligence and grace, you can stick to the original opener :p
Last edited by Qualiti on Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Stenhaldi
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Stenhaldi » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:07 pm

The idea is that you get the opening rip as one of your first two attacks, so it benefits from precast dream of cenarius.

Qualiti
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Qualiti » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:09 pm

Stenhaldi wrote:The idea is that you get the opening rip as one of your first two attacks, so it benefits from precast dream of cenarius.
Naturally. Does this not do that?


Unless he meant to include a Tiger's fury before his first Savage roar, which I could understand. But there doesn't seem to be any real disadvantage to using Tiger's fury twice before the pull. The end result is still the same DoC'd rip, but you have a 3cp Savage roar on your initial cast instead of 1cp.
Last edited by Qualiti on Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Stenhaldi
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Stenhaldi » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:13 pm

Oh you have two TF casts in there.

I don't see any benefit to that over doing an initial 0-CP roar though. You're not getting any extra duration. (If you did get extra duration, the game wouldn't even let you do the second savage roar.)
Last edited by Stenhaldi on Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Qualiti
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Qualiti » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:14 pm

Stenhaldi wrote:Oh you have two TF casts in there.
Aye, you see where I'm going with this now? I'm basically seeking validation and an extra opinion or two.

Ardezar
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Ardezar » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:21 pm

Edit: Never mind, doesn't work because generating combo points will generate aggro =(
Last edited by Ardezar on Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Qualiti
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Qualiti » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:24 pm

Stenhaldi wrote:Oh you have two TF casts in there.

I don't see any benefit to that over doing an initial 0-CP roar though. You're not getting any extra duration. (If you did get extra duration, the game wouldn't even let you do the second savage roar.)
You do get extra duration. You're opting for a 3CP SR instead of a 0-CP SR.

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Tinderhoof
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Tinderhoof » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:26 pm

If the point is using the first TF to get a 3 point Roar on there, you need to remember that it requires a target to put the 3 combo points on. Doing so on a raid boss will pull the boss onto your face.

Qualiti
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Qualiti » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:32 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:If the point is using the first TF to get a 3 point Roar on there, you need to remember that it requires a target to put the 3 combo points on. Doing so on a raid boss will pull the boss onto your face.
Hah you're absolutely right, You can redirect to raid bosses without pulling so I assumed you could generate CP in this manner also.

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Tinderhoof
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Tinderhoof » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:40 pm

Combo points stay on a boss after it resets? I don't think that's how it works.

Qualiti
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Qualiti » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:47 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:Combo points stay on a boss after it resets? I don't think that's how it works.

They do not persist, I went and looked in LFR to make sure. In the past I've redirected(rogue symbiosis) to raid bosses without pulling so the thought of the boss running at me didn't cross my mind. You are indeed correct, and thank you for the speedy response :P

cg1351
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by cg1351 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:26 pm

I don't think there's a range limit on cp's. Useful tip on malkarok (if your guild clears that trash) is to build 5cps on the dummys and run up open with a full sr and guarenteed ps proc :)

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Tinderhoof
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Tinderhoof » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:42 pm

If the body the combo points were on despawns you will lose them. There is also a time limit. I don't remember what it is, but they do expire on dead targets.

Molov
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Molov » Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:04 pm

20 seconds if i remember correctly

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Sibylle
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Sibylle » Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:44 am

Is Ravage only for people with DoC? I don't even have it keybound anymore. Did I miss something?
-Sibylle

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Alpheus
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Alpheus » Wed Oct 02, 2013 8:17 am

Sibylle wrote:Is Ravage only for people with DoC? I don't even have it keybound anymore. Did I miss something?
Back in 5.3 Ravage was merely an optimized opener but with the lack of NS in 5.4 now, Ravage with T16 4set enables you to get 5 combo points in one hit thus allowing you to put up a DoC'd rip on the pull
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Geralltqt
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Geralltqt » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:24 am

Hello guys, ive been reading and following this forum for a long time, and this is first time i decided to post something :)
Anyway, about opener, i rly like cleavernes of this opener that you guys described here, which allow us to put first Rip with both Doc/tf buff, and RoR. But, what about 2nd trinket proc, that, by my exp so far (im using AoC normal atm) never proc at least 5 sec into pull? And what about all energy waste that comes from using Tf at start ? Does all that justify just for DoC-ed Rip at pull?

Also, what do u guys think about this kind of opener (this is under assuption that primal fury wont proc at all and that we have 4p T16) :
precast Ht>prepot>stealth>ravage>rake>shred>TF>shred (this is where we have 5 cp now)> SR>Bserk>shred>HT>rake>rip. This way we get 5 cp SR up, buffed Rip/rake with both trinkets/tf/synapse. No energy or cp going to waste. OFC, bad side is that we get our first rip few seconds later into fight. This is just suggestion and i just wonder what you guys think about that. :)

Paloro
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Paloro » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:37 am

Geralltqt wrote: Also, what do u guys think about this kind of opener (this is under assuption that primal fury wont proc at all and that we have 4p T16) :
precast Ht>prepot>stealth>ravage>rake>shred>TF>shred (this is where we have 5 cp now)> SR>Bserk>shred>HT>rake>rip. This way we get 5 cp SR up, buffed Rip/rake with both trinkets/tf/synapse. No energy or cp going to waste. OFC, bad side is that we get our first rip few seconds later into fight. This is just suggestion and i just wonder what you guys think about that. :)
The opener they have been talking about uses Haromms or TED.

For AoC (which is what I have and just got my 4p), I will be using:
HT -> Pre-SR -> Pre-Pot -> SR (with 9 sec left on duration) -> Rake -> Rake -> Shred -> TF+Synapse Springs -> SR -> Shred -> HT -> Rake/Rip (depending on CP's)

It's a bit tight, but it makes sure that AoC is proc'd. I just need to figure out how to make sure I can get my treants out as well!
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raffy
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by raffy » Wed Oct 02, 2013 4:37 pm

If you're using DoC and have 4pT16, you can use aggixx's opener in Catus by selecting "Advanced" from Combat Prep > Opener. Generate a combat log to see what it's doing. It's probably not so good for Renataki, but great from Ebon.
Spoiler: show

Code: Select all

00:00.000 @Player Healing Touch
00:00.000 +Dream of Cenarius: +2
00:00.000 +Savage Roar`0: 12.93s (0.00s)
00:00.000 +Potion#1: +4000 Agility
00:00.000 +Prowl
00:00.000 +Tiger's Fury: +0 (100 > 100)
00:00.000 +Feral Rage
00:00.000 *** Combat ***
00:00.000 *Savage Roar`0: 14.06s (12.93s)
00:00.000 -Feral Rage
00:00.000 @Boss   Combo: 3 (+3/3)
00:00.082 Energy: 76
00:00.164 Energy: 77
00:00.246 Energy: 78
00:00.328 Energy: 79
00:00.410 Energy: 80
00:00.492 Energy: 81
00:00.574 Energy: 82
00:00.656 Energy: 83
00:00.738 Energy: 84
00:00.820 Energy: 85
00:00.902 Energy: 86
00:00.984 Energy: 87
00:01.012 -Prowl
00:01.012 ~Dream of Cenarius (1/2)
00:01.012 @Boss   Ravage                             343676 Crit         +SR+DoC+TF+Agi(4000)
00:01.012 +Dancing Steel: +1650 Agility
00:01.012 +Flurry of Xuen
00:01.012 +Rune of Re-Origination<543>: +36074 Mastery, -9018 Crit, -9019 Haste
00:01.012 +Renataki's Soul Charm<543>: +1622 Agility (1/10)
00:01.012 @Boss   Combo: 5 (+2/2)
00:01.012 @Boss   Melee                               22757 Glance       +SR+TF+Agi(7272)
00:01.066 Energy: 43
00:01.166 Energy: 44
00:01.266 Energy: 45
00:01.312 @Boss   Flurry of Xuen#1                    19797 Hit          +SR+TF+Agi(7272)
00:01.366 Energy: 46
00:01.466 Energy: 47
00:01.566 Energy: 48
00:01.612 @Boss   Flurry of Xuen#2                    19797 Hit          +SR+TF+Agi(7272)
00:01.666 Energy: 49
00:01.766 Energy: 50
00:01.866 Energy: 51
00:01.912 @Boss   Flurry of Xuen#3                    19797 Hit          +SR+TF+Agi(7272)
00:01.921 @Boss   Melee                               26945 Hit          +SR+TF+Agi(7272)
00:01.966 Energy: 52
00:02.012 ~Renataki's Soul Charm<543>: +3244 Agility (2/10)
00:02.018 +Berserk
00:02.018 +Berserking
00:02.018 +Synapse Springs
00:02.018 -Dream of Cenarius (0/2)
00:02.018 @Boss   +Rip`5#+SR+DoC+TF+Agi(10814)+Mastery(36074)-Crit(9018)

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Ekthelion
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Ekthelion » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:33 am

if only AoC would proc 100% on every pull instead of .... sometimes after >10 seconds when the Rune buff drops :'(
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Dazzlie
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Dazzlie » Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:44 am

I don't know about you guys but I found this to be the best opener:
- Pre HT > Pre pot > prowl > SR > charge > ravage > (trinkets proc) > rake to 5 cp > TF > Savage roar > rake > rake > ht > Rip > rake
Doing this I also sometimes get time to thrash with RoRo up but if not I at least get full power on rip and rake. You can check my opener in this vid:
http://youtu.be/frohjcXHgvg

Knuet
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Knuet » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:49 pm

Hi Dazzlie!

Did you make the rip rake icons with calculated dot ticks with weak auras?

regards

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Tinderhoof
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Re: 4PC T16 opener.

Post by Tinderhoof » Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:54 pm

Knuet wrote:Hi Dazzlie!

Did you make the rip rake icons with calculated dot ticks with weak auras?

regards
You can find them here:
http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 611#p18611

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