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Cetlysm
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Cetlysm » Wed Jul 23, 2014 4:27 pm

It already starting to turn into the "I hate the ability so I like the talent copypaste MMO thread that was around.
Sad.
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Sibylle » Wed Jul 23, 2014 5:28 pm

aggixx wrote:I created a feedback thread specifically regarding Savagery, if you guys could read it and provide your opinion on the topic I would greatly appreciate it.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/13567376692
I can't post on the US forum, love the way you wrote this. Would it be worth to start something similar on the EU forums?
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by aggixx » Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:40 pm

Cetlysm wrote:It already starting to turn into the "I hate the ability so I like the talent copypaste MMO thread that was around.
Sad.
Yeah... I'm pretty sure if they wanted to remove Savage Roar they wouldn't have put the talent in the game.
Sibylle wrote:I can't post on the US forum, love the way you wrote this. Would it be worth to start something similar on the EU forums?
While it couldn't hurt I hear the EU forums don't get much love :( It'd likely get read but it'd be no more likely than the US forums.
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by raffy » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:41 pm

As I stated earlier, I think it's a mistake to think of the talent as the "noob" choice, but I definitely see how starting from this talent (without prior Feral experience) both promotes poor play and makes the other talents very unconformable and frustrating.

From a completely different perspective: the combo-point change and the SR glyph (once all the bugs are fixed) make SR management far less punishing. It's possible that this talent was designed with pre-WoD expectations and is junk purely because it solves a problem we no longer experience.

Is the complexity gap between the other L100 talents the primary issue?
Can Savagery be modified or does it need to be scrapped entirely?
Does anyone have a recommendation for a talent to replace Savagery?
Should there be a way to get nearly-passive SR (but maybe at a cost) via another mechanic?

Edit: incoming crazy ideas :p

1. Ceaseless Carnage In the same spirit as Savagery, all Bleed (and SR) durations could increase additively? So you could 5pt SR twice and have a longer uptime, or Rake 50 times and it will last for 10+ minutes. Maybe it should just apply to finishers.

2. Primal Vigor Reduce Berserk cooldown to 90sec or give Berserk an extra charge.

3. Insatiable Bite Replaces Ferocious bite. Your autoattacks cause a small stacking bleed on your target that are immediately consumed as instant bleed damage when you Insatiable Bite. Or maybe bleed ticks could cause a debuff (and no stacking DoT.) Or maybe no bleed/debuff, and make it consume 1 tick of Rip and/or Rake instantly.

4. Ravage 2 charges, requires Cat form, no energy cost, 20sec? recharge. Make it bleed damage so it scales with Mastery. This would force another bind like MF for LI and HT for BT. Maybe there could be a proc to generate charges (but with a longer recharge time.)

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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Untamable » Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:48 pm

A passive talent that can be useful in single target or AoE situations could be something related to Berserk. Maybe something like "Increases the duration of berserk by X seconds" or "Reduce the cooldown of Berserk by X secs" or maybe "Your Berserk have an extra charge".

That would be a passive option AND it would be useful in AoE unlike LI.

Thoughts?
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Cetlysm » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:34 pm

I do agree we need AoE talent but I woudl't like something that messes with berserk's CD but at the same time not with incarnation.

This is my idea, kind ofstole it from WW 100 talent.

No fun allowed
20 energy
Finishing move that causes additional effects based on combo points consumed:

1 point: Copies your latest rip and rake to your current target, if no new target, increases rip duration by 2 seconds.
2 points: Increases Swipe damage by 50% for 6 seconds.
3 points: Refreshes Thrash(cat) duration to its full duration on every target within 10 yards.
4 points: The cat goes into a patch notes frenzy and all bleed damage dealt to the current target is also dealt to the 3 highest health targets within 10 yards for 6 seconds.
5 points: casts a 5cp equivalent FB (1 + 0.357 * 5 * Attack power) damage consumes up to 50 additional Energy to increase damage by up to 150%.

Critical strike chance doubled against bleeding targets.
When used on targets below 25% health with any amount of combo points, it will also refresh the duration of your Rip on your target.


Replaces Ferocious Bite

So you have to know the effecta and use them depending on the situation.
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by aggixx » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:55 pm

Some nifty suggestions guys. I think if they're going to replace Savagery, realistically its going to have to be with a fairly simple option, or at least that's my impression of people's expectations I'm getting from the thread. So while I got some amusement from your "No fun allowed" ability Cetlysm I don't think its realistic in any way =P

Like I said though I really appreciate it if people contribute their opinion to the thread as that's where it is most likely to be read and taken into account, not here. (don't take that as discussing here isn't allowed of course :D)
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Cetlysm » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:40 am

Ok simple, simple, assuming they get lazy and want to keep it very similar.

Savageriest Roar
Level 100
You savage roar duration is increased by 100% and increases all physical damage by 45%.
Additionaly, your savage roar becomes self aware and expreses its disgust for your low uptimes.

An alert will be announced through the National Emergency alarm repeater and red flares will be launched next to your home when savage roar needs refreshing.

But really, I like that idea you mentioned on the thread about the inquisition-like glyph, I really want to have 3 competitive viable talents for raiding
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Kroníc » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:36 am

On top of the SR debate, will Bear Thrashing actually be a thing on live or is that just a beta bug? (Sorry if this was already answered)

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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Sibylle » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:58 am

aggixx wrote:
Sibylle wrote:I can't post on the US forum, love the way you wrote this. Would it be worth to start something similar on the EU forums?
While it couldn't hurt I hear the EU forums don't get much love :( It'd likely get read but it'd be no more likely than the US forums.
Yeah, that's fine - I was thinking it might be best to concentrate it all in one thread and one forum anyway.
The thread started off really well too, haven't checked it yet this morning but the beginnings at least seemed civil and without the usual Beta-QQ.


@Cetlysm: ROFL!!
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Tinderhoof » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:16 am

Kroníc wrote:On top of the SR debate, will Bear Thrashing actually be a thing on live or is that just a beta bug? (Sorry if this was already answered)
They said if it ends up being good enough to be rotational they will fix it. It won't be a thing.

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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by aggixx » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:35 am

Kroníc wrote:On top of the SR debate, will Bear Thrashing actually be a thing on live or is that just a beta bug? (Sorry if this was already answered)
What Tinder said, Celestalon promised it would be adjusted if its worth using, and I'm pretty sure they know that it is right now its just not really worth fixing until tuning starts. That said though, its not really a bug, its all working as intended mechanically.
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Dandeleon » Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:24 pm

What gems should i use on my lv90 feral copy ? Agi, mastery or crit?

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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Nerto » Thu Jul 24, 2014 3:11 pm

Hi,

I have a question about 90 Talent. We lost every DMG benefict in comparison to other classes. Is this DMG lost already compensated?

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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Cantor (Shredable) » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:29 pm

Nerto wrote:Hi,

I have a question about 90 Talent. We lost every DMG benefict in comparison to other classes. Is this DMG lost already compensated?
Yes. Well, sort of. It will be, but numbers haven't been tuned yet on the beta, so we may be doing less relative damage compared to what we're doing on Live at the moment, or a great deal more. Nevertheless, our damage will be fine without the increases from HotW/NV/DoC.

@Sibylle: I'm also in the EU, and the state of our beta forum is just atrocious compared to the US one. 2 forums (one for all beta feedback, and one for tech support) compared to 14 in the US (classes, general, dungeons, zone-specific, PvP, professions, bugs, mac AND PC tech support) means it's really hard to find any information that you want, and the EU community seems to be much less active as well - possibly because we're split across several different languages. Try this thread for information about being able to post in the US.

Finally, please remember to use the Suggestion option in the beta (it's in the same place as bug reports) if you feel you have something relevant to bring to the attention of Blizzard - could be talent concerns, rotational abilities, anything.

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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Untamable » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:13 pm

Looks like they have finally fixed Savagery :D

According to MMO-Champ Savagery is now a talent and it makes SR passive but deals 5% less damage.
A new talent is up too. Claws of Shirvallah (New) Renegade Druids have developed the ability to shapeshift into a creature half man and half cat. This alternate Cat Form allows the use of all non-damaging Druid spells while shapeshifted, and increases Versatility by 5%. “Have we learned nothing from the Scythe of Elune?” --Archdruid Hamuul Runetotem Druid - LvL 0 Talent.

Assuming it stays, I think it is going to be very powerful in pvp.
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Cetlysm » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:17 pm

Item - Druid T17 Feral 4P Bonus While Berserk is active, special attacks deal an additional 15% bleed damage to the target over until cancelled. 6 sec.
Savagery (New) Major Glyph. Instant.
Savagery (New) Savage Roar is now always active passively, but its effect is reduced by 5%. Requires Cat Form. Major Glyph.
mmm
I think they're taking your idea pawkets?
Inquisition-like glyph, and a brand new 100 talent(soon), please let it be true.
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Rayen » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:34 pm

Color me curious...

Claws of Shirvallah (New) Renegade Druids have developed the ability to shapeshift into a creature half man and half cat. This alternate Cat Form allows the use of all non-damaging Druid spells while shapeshifted, and increases Versatility by 5%. “Have we learned nothing from the Scythe of Elune?” --Archdruid Hamuul Runetotem Druid - LvL 0 Talent.

New lvl 100 since the glyph change?
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by aggixx » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:22 pm

I suppose this is in order:

*squeeeeeeeeeeeeee*

Thanks to everyone that provided their feedback in the thread, I really appreciate it a lot I just didn't want to say it in the thread and come across as sucking up to people xD.

Claws of Shirvallah seems pretty cool and I really like it as a passive option. It's got a little bit but not too much utility in raids and has huge potential in PvP. The flavor is pretty awesome too and I'm hyped to see what kind of effects/model they have planned for it (if any). I'd imagine they'll have some sort of claw spell effect on the druid's hands? Not sure, but they certainly aren't adding models for every race and it'd be awkward to have one hybrid model for all races.

Edit: As far as what spells Shirvallah lets you use, because its hard to think of them all, especially with all the pruning:
Healing Touch
Mark of the Wild
Rebirth
Remove Corruption
Entangling Roots
Cyclone
Soothe
Revive
Teleport: Moonglade

The utility is certainly much stronger for PvP but I can also easily think of a handful of PvE situations where being able to cast those spells in form would be nice.
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Rayen » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:38 pm

Well, The Saberon has 4 new models in WOD.
Panther for the Nelf
Tiger for Troll
Saber/No Stripes for Tauren
Snow Leopard for Worgen

possibly?
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by aggixx » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:47 pm

A good guess, but I'm not sure if they'd be okay with using models that are used in other places. Like how when they put in Ascendance they made unique models for it when they could've easily just used existing ones. Guess we'll have to see though!

Edit: Welp, you nailed it.
I have word that @Wowhead is working on a model viewer for the Claws of Shirvallah models, but in the mean time, I can share this info...
... Shirvallah form uses a new-to-Warlords model, also used for the Saberon race, but it uses some different animations. Shirvallah form...
... moves on all fours, and a variety of clawing attacks. For now, skin choices are limited, but that's something we may expand on in...
... the future. Tauren look like Lions, Trolls look like Tigers (thus the name), Worgen look like Snow Leopards, Night Elves like Panthers.
https://twitter.com/Celestalon/status/4 ... 1233657857
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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Treeba » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:51 pm

I wonder if it will gain a special visual effect with Incarnation.

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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by aggixx » Thu Jul 24, 2014 11:57 pm

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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Treeba » Fri Jul 25, 2014 12:13 am

Seems silly, but I won't complain.

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Re: Alpha Testing

Post by Kraineth » Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:35 am

I like it, seems like a good passive talent for people who don't want to add more complication to the rotation, but it also doesn't take away a complication like Savagery did.

Overally probably a good pvp/utility talent, while probably not being tuned to beat out LI/BT in terms of DPS.

The lore is pretty interesting, but i'm not much of a fan of troll druids existing lol. Hopefully these "renegade druids" aren't inherently evil.

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