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How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:52 am
by Whitepaw
With the premis of the current balancing of our dps abilities and Savage Roar staying as they are right now:

How large is the dps drop when using Glyph of Savagery @ lvl 100?

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:52 am
by Meaningless
iirc it should be around a 4% dps loss. Been awhile since I check it so might be wrong, can recheck when I get home.

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:36 am
by Whitepaw
Based on a simulation done by Barehand and posted on US servers (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... 462?page=2), the loss will be 3-4% on single-target fights, with optimal play. What's interesting is that movement-heavy fights seems slightly to favour Glyph of Savagery (+1% dps).

So Glyph of Savagery seems like a good leveling choice and could even be the best choice on certain encounters :D

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:19 am
by Ammiel
Whitepaw wrote:So Glyph of Savagery seems like a good leveling choice and could even be the best choice on certain encounters :D
To be fair, during leveling you can open a lot from stealth so Glyph of Savage Roar should be better.

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:22 am
by Whitepaw
Ammiel wrote:
Whitepaw wrote:So Glyph of Savagery seems like a good leveling choice and could even be the best choice on certain encounters :D
To be fair, during leveling you can open a lot from stealth so Glyph of Savage Roar should be better.
Yep, but that would require re-stealthing - and if you want to kill as fast as possible without re-stealthing, you go with Glyph of Savagery.

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:25 am
by Karyy
I guess while levelling the mobs dont have much health for the dps loss to be very noticeable? Someone who had beta would know more. It seems pretty viable for chain pulling mobs (say if you're with a group).

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 9:56 am
by Meaningless
Glyph of savagery is indeed good while leveling or when doing other stuff that requires you to kill alot of weak targets. But unless you wait to lvl on launch day getting glyph of savagery won't be that easy, as all the new glyphs are learnt at random..

The only glyph I really want while leveling is glyph of travel, way to OP to pass up.

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:06 am
by Karyy
Meaningless wrote:Glyph of savagery is indeed good while leveling or when doing other stuff that requires you to kill alot of weak targets. But unless you wait to lvl on launch day getting glyph of savagery won't be that easy, as all the new glyphs are learnt at random..

The only glyph I really want while leveling is glyph of travel, way to OP to pass up.
Unless you like being a majestic cheetah :(

Edit: Don't post before coffee...

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:28 pm
by Tinderhoof
Whitepaw wrote:Based on a simulation done by Barehand and posted on US servers (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic ... 462?page=2), the loss will be 3-4% on single-target fights, with optimal play. What's interesting is that movement-heavy fights seems slightly to favour Glyph of Savagery (+1% dps).

So Glyph of Savagery seems like a good leveling choice and could even be the best choice on certain encounters :D
He posted lots of % numbers but he didn't post any SIM data. I am suspicious of this information until he actually shows his work.

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:13 pm
by ShmooDude
Patchwerk
Glyph of Savage Roar
Image

Glyph of Savagery
Image

Change (rounded to the nearest percent):
Incarnation -4%
SotF -2%
FoN -1% (-2% paired w/ LI)

DPS decrease is actually pretty negligible if you're not combining Incarnation + Glyph of Savage Roar.

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:26 pm
by ShmooDude
Council Style (3 bosses)
Glyph of Savage Roar
Image

Glyph of Savagery
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Add Style (5 adds every 33 seconds that live 22 seconds for the first 2/3 the fight, similar to Horridon only without the movement)
Glyph of Savage Roar
Image

Glyph of Savagery
Image

Council style is a much smaller loss. Add style is actually a larger loss.

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 7:12 pm
by Whitepaw
Thanks, Shmoo 8-)

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:48 am
by Ammiel
Whitepaw wrote:
Ammiel wrote:
Whitepaw wrote:So Glyph of Savagery seems like a good leveling choice and could even be the best choice on certain encounters :D
To be fair, during leveling you can open a lot from stealth so Glyph of Savage Roar should be better.
Yep, but that would require re-stealthing - and if you want to kill as fast as possible without re-stealthing, you go with Glyph of Savagery.
Having to stealth is not really a problem, mob aggro range is small so you might as well just glyph rake (replacing cat form, at least I never found the healing increase particularly valuable while leveling) to give it +8 yards range then you can just stealth and instantly open with it losing no time at all. There's also two perks making stealth more attractive (full run speed, double rake damage on opener). Regardless, any time you're supposedly saving by not having to stealth is initially made up for by the additional damage and later on through perks. You can use the glyph out of convenience but it's not faster.

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:36 pm
by ShmooDude
Ammiel wrote:Having to stealth is not really a problem, mob aggro range is small so you might as well just glyph rake (replacing cat form, at least I never found the healing increase particularly valuable while leveling) to give it +8 yards range then you can just stealth and instantly open with it losing no time at all. There's also two perks making stealth more attractive (full run speed, double rake damage on opener). Regardless, any time you're supposedly saving by not having to stealth is initially made up for by the additional damage and later on through perks. You can use the glyph out of convenience but it's not faster.
Not necessarily faster, but also not much slower. On any sort of leveling mob its gonna be one white attack's worth of damage to make up what you lost (maybe two towards the end).

But you're right, once you have the prowl perk, its no big deal, before then I'd prefer to use the glyph just so I don't have to stealth at slower move speed.

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:27 pm
by Meaningless
Or you just lvl as guardian \o/

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 9:45 pm
by Steakbomb
Meaningless wrote:Or you just lvl as guardian \o/
Funny you mention this as I will mainly be leveling as Feral but as I am leveling with other guild members, I will be running Guardian at times so I can grab a bunch of mobs and we can aoe them down. And also running Guardian for normal dungeons while leveling.

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:03 pm
by Meaningless
The biggest issue in terms of lvling without Savagery for me is not the fact that I need to go into stealth, thats fine. But the cooldown on stealth is not fine... monsters die in less then 3 seconds

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:13 pm
by Twitchys
But the SR you get from GoSR lasts full duration, so you only need to open from stealth every 42 secs. With travel time I found myself opening from stealth about every other mob or so.

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 2:54 pm
by Meaningless
Guess that is true.

I find it better to lvl in guardian either way.. Thrash is just op

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:19 pm
by Aperature
I will be leveling with a hunter, so I will be gathering and Trashing my way to 100. I just hate how slow the Bear moves.

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:34 am
by Tremnen
kinda sorry for necro but....

would this plus LI be good for tectus?

we seemed to have to move constantly on that fight. might just be our group being unfamiliar

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:44 pm
by aggixx
I had no issues with SR on Tectus, I think that's just an unfamiliarity issue like you said. Once you get comfortable with the encounter the vast majority of movement you do should not be the kind that involves you leaving melee for anything more than a fraction of a second.

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:49 pm
by ShmooDude
Also, LI isn't affected by Savage Roar, so its actually the spec it would be least useful for I'd think (since you can always moonfire then savage roar).

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:49 am
by Helistar
It would be interesting to compare the loss to the width of the DPS distribution. On my character, it's 15%... (+- 7.5%), making the loss from the glyph be completely invisible in a real raid setting.....

At times I'm wondering if Blizzard explicitly designs talents/glyphs to be close enough to be below the "noise", so that whatever your choice it'll be your gameplay/skill (personal player stat) which makes a difference instead of the talent choice (general info taken from websites).

Re: How large is the dps drop with Glyph of Savagery?

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:57 am
by Tremnen
ShmooDude wrote:Also, LI isn't affected by Savage Roar, so its actually the spec it would be least useful for I'd think (since you can always moonfire then savage roar).

I know it isnt effected but it saves you energy so you can multi moonfire more. On tectus our strat would have around 5 targets out at maximum. it gets really energy conscious to thrash, rake, and moonfire 5 targets and keep up SR.