Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2.3!

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by aggixx » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:29 am

Hestan wrote:also what length should I be running at by default when looking how much DPS an item upgrade will give me?
Whatever you think is realistic for the encounters you do, but default (450s) is fine.
Zstriker wrote:`higher gear levels` - what aproxemetly item lvl is that?
That would depend what you consider to be a small difference, which can vary quite a lot from person to person. The gap gets larger with higher gear but its always going to be within a couple hundred DPS. Its pretty pointless for me to give an arbitrary number, if you want to justify using Shattered Hand you should just sim it yourself.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Leafkiller » Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:17 pm

@Aggixx

In your guide (And Tinderhoof's on Wowhead) you have the following:
Ferocious Bite with 5 combo points and 50 energy if Rip and Savage Roar are managed.

In simc (and Ovale) it is pooling almost to energy capping:
ferocious_bite,max_energy=1,if=(energy.time_to_max<=1|buff.berserk.up|cooldown.tigers_fury.remains<3)

Which is correct?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by aggixx » Thu Dec 18, 2014 9:01 pm

Pooling to high energy is very slightly superior for two reason:
a) Gives you more leniency in achieving your next BT cycle if you're using BT (this is pretty minor especially as your gear increases)
b) It allows the sim to effectively "pool" before using an appropriately timed Rip or SR. For example if it reaches 5 CP and Rip has 10 seconds left, the conditional causes SimC to wait until ~90 energy before FBing, and before it can reach 90 energy Rip will have ticked down to 7.2 seconds and then it will be refreshed instead of Biting.

At least that's the idea, in practice I say "very slightly superior" because the sim results indicate the difference between the two behaviors is essentially negligible.

Note that the "max_energy" option forces that line to only allow 50 energy casts of FB (or their equivalent during OoC, Berserk, etc).
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Zstriker » Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:51 am

aggixx wrote:
Zstriker wrote:`higher gear levels` - what aproxemetly item lvl is that?
That would depend what you consider to be a small difference, which can vary quite a lot from person to person. The gap gets larger with higher gear but its always going to be within a couple hundred DPS. Its pretty pointless for me to give an arbitrary number, if you want to justify using Shattered Hand you should just sim it yourself.
so roughly
at my ~670 it gives ~100 dps increase
at person you point few post ago at ~660 it was ~60 dps increase

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Ecerot » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:46 am

Hey there,

I had a question please, this situation happened to me quite often:

I have my rip up for 10 remaining seconds. Rake is also ok, buffed with Blood talons for both of them
I pooled energy so I'm overcapping or very close to.

What should I do? Lose one combo point with a shred to be sure of my Rip uptime, and refresh it at 7,2 seconds?
Or FB, try to get back at 5 combo points with luck ( I don't take TF into account in that case) and refresh Rip before it expires (1-2 seconds)?

From my point of view, for the moment I spend a shred, and lose a combo point because I think I will be strulling with the new Rip as its duration will not have benefited from the pandemic effect.

Thank you for your answers.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by aggixx » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:51 am

Bite and pray!
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Ecerot » Fri Dec 19, 2014 7:23 am

:D ok then, I'll Bite now!

Thank you Aggix

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Untamable » Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:39 am

I got a mythic Captive Micro-Aberration from my garrison mission today. Is there any scenario where it outperforms a 670 Skull of war and a 665 Lucky Double-Sided Coin?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Zstriker » Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:24 am

coin is best you can get now, don't dare to replace it before mythic BF trinkets
pretty much patchwerk trinket ranking list is on first page in guide, for multitarget you need to sim yourself, but haste on it is bad
even if that trinket would be warforged and have socket doubt it still could beat skull of war
but I would save that for your guardian offspec

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by s3lla » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:09 pm

Any good advices how to AOE Tectus (M) phase 3? ;/ saving Bers, coin, tiger fury, but after that you seems to fall far far behind anyone else ( currectly trying to thrash and rake everyone.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Meaningless » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:13 pm

s3lla wrote:Any good advices how to AOE Tectus (M) phase 3? ;/ saving Bers, coin, tiger fury, but after that you seems to fall far far behind anyone else ( currectly trying to thrash and rake everyone.
You should use incarnation in p2 so you have a 50 sec roar just as you enter last phase

Coin + berserk + TF is what I used, just thrash and swipe and bite on the highest target.. ferals are good in p1 and p2 but are pretty lackluster in the last phase. As long as you have zerk up your swipe aoe aint that bad. and that phase shouldnt last more then 20-30 seconds
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Latiika » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:58 am

Hey

I 've been analising warcraftlogs (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/6 ... &bracket=1) for ferals on heroic Highmaul with max ilvl 647. On the butcher fight you rank highest dps with 641 ilvl on 12/10/2014. I noticed some peculiar things though while reading trough the report, and am puzzled. Perhaps u can shed some light on these issues.

U open the fight with a stealthed rake, pop incarnation and coin trinket (skull of war has also been triggered), shred till 4-5 cp (i assume, the log doesnt show cp), pop berserker n TF, then rip. BUT ur next move is a 141k FB!! Now am puzzled how u throw two finishers in a row and how that FB is so high! Even if u accidentally clicked FB, it can not be that high if not under perfect conditions (5CP, 50 energy, TF n BT buffed)

One thing that might explain this though: at about 35s in the fight, u gained a buff called Feral Rage (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=146874/feral-rage), that will restore 3cp on ur target after u uses a finisher during TF. Now i dont hv that in my spellbook, nor do i recall i ever seen it. Seems its a 5.4 spell but besides the wowhead page i find nothing abt Feral rage.

Any chance u cld help me out here?

I follow ur rotation and am top dps in my guild, only sometimes beaten by the hunter or SP. But at lvl 651, i am nowhere near ur 641 dps..... I must add i dont hv either of the aforementioned trinkets, and i am well aware that this does make a difference, still...

Latiika.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Latiika » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:15 am

Ok, after some extended searches, the feral rage buff is the T16 4p bonus :D But where you really still wearing T16 4p set? Because even mythic 4/4 its still low to get you to 641 ilvl on that fight...

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Zstriker » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:01 pm

Thats the power of Aggix's research and theryocrafting,and that try was an experiment

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Latiika » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:37 pm

Zstriker wrote:Thats the power of Aggix's research and theryocrafting,and that try was an experiment
So you're saying I am correct about the T16 set? Its an impressive bonus then, considering it still provides top dps for the butcher heroic fight in the 1-647 ilvl bracket...

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Nancet » Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:32 pm

Latiika wrote:So you're saying I am correct about the T16 set? Its an impressive bonus then, considering it still provides top dps for the butcher heroic fight in the 1-647 ilvl bracket...
You are indeed correct however I believe that the T16 set bonuses were hotfixed so that they no longer work at level 100.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Alcootest » Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:29 pm

http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17N.html

Someone can explain me why rip are not use with tiger's fury ?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by aggixx » Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:25 pm

Zstriker wrote:Thats the power of Aggix's research and theryocrafting,and that try was an experiment
I don't know if I'd say it was an experiment, SimulationCraft essentially verified that using 4pT16 was a DPS gain on a patchwerk fight so that's what I did. In terms of having such a higher DPS for the item level it of course achieves that in two ways, since not only is it higher DPS than my normal gear (659 at the time? something like that, you could check the log for what ilevel I had on Kargath) but it also brings down your average item level significantly since you're wearing 582 pieces. The former is actually just a minor optimization but the latter of course makes the parse look far more impressive in this context.
Alcootest wrote:http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/Raid_T17N.html

Someone can explain me why rip are not use with tiger's fury ?
There's actually a "snapshotting details" section of the report specifically for feral druids that Twitchy added in, and you can see how often its applied with TF (30.77% of casts and 32.62% of ticks). If you're asking why it doesn't go out of its way to Rip during Tiger's Fury its because Ferocious Bite does so much damage relative to Rip that you're pretty much always better off casting Ferocious Bite instead of doing a Rip clip that wastes Rip duration. This is covered in the guide in the snapshotting & clipping section: you never clip Rip ever, except for during execute on a fight of appropriate length.

Edit: To clarify here since someone asked me, when I say "clip" or "wastes duration" I mean refreshing Rip when it has more than 7.2 seconds left.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by TheLOOGE » Fri Dec 26, 2014 3:56 pm

This is covered in the guide in the snapshotting & clipping section: you never clip Rip ever, except for during execute on a fight of appropriate length.
Or if by not clipping and casting Ferocious Bite, you would cause an excessive amount of downtime on Rip. I think someone had mentioned 5 seconds of downtime earlier in this thread? Not sure if that has been officially "mathed" out and made concrete but yeah. Basically, Pawkets tweeted I think the best possible, succinct answer as it pertains to Rip a little while ago. If you're worried about the strength of Rip, you're worried about it too much. If you're neglecting it's uptime, you're worried about it too little. Paraphrased, of course, but you should get the gist. Only time you should go out of your way and clip to emphasize the strength of Rip is for BitW (as mentioned above).

Incidentally, I am fucking swimming in haste. Lord I hate it. I'm thinking about swapping in some mastery gems in lieu of crit. Because as it stands, I have ~200 mastery, 900 haste, something like 1600 crit rating and ~400-500 Multistrike. Nine. Hundred. Haste. What am I a Combat Kitty? Windwalker Feral? ....a Frost DKat? /facepalm

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Kvothe » Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:19 am

So I've hoarded enough gold to buy the coin, but now I'm wondernig if it's really worth it at this point. My current trinket are a 3/3 Skull and the Butcher HC one, and looking at the sims the coin isn't really that far ahead dps wise. Would it be better to spend the gold on BiS upgrades, knowing that I won't kill the last bosses on mythic for a long time? For example, a 670 neck with crit/mastery instead of the shitty 670 that you get from Imperator.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Nayni » Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:36 pm

Kvothe wrote:So I've hoarded enough gold to buy the coin, but now I'm wondernig if it's really worth it at this point. My current trinket are a 3/3 Skull and the Butcher HC one, and looking at the sims the coin isn't really that far ahead dps wise. Would it be better to spend the gold on BiS upgrades, knowing that I won't kill the last bosses on mythic for a long time? For example, a 670 neck with crit/mastery instead of the shitty 670 that you get from Imperator.
I would say that getting a coin is never wasting gold. I consider it Higmaul Mythic BIS and the fact you can have a trinket where you as a player are in full control (aka fuck RPPM) is way more valuable. Coin still also Sims better then any trinket currently available apart from Mythic Scales.

I've not regret one second of spending my money on a Lucky coin and a skull of war. They synergize exceptionaly well with eachother and on top of that they synergize really well with feral cooldowns.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Xillian » Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:56 pm

Is Lucky double-sided coin really worth my spending 75k on? I'm already running a 640 Skull of War and 670 Scales of War. Looking at the DPS ranking for trinkets, it looks like it would only yield 550 more dps in an equal scenario. Seems like a waste to me if I don't see it drop.

Also one other question, how does heart of the wild with moonfire / wrath spam compare to normal DPS. I've been using it on Kargath when he levitates the first time to keep my DPS going but not sure if its worth stopping wrath once he drops or if I should go back to my rotation.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by TheLOOGE » Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:16 pm

Xillian wrote:Is Lucky double-sided coin really worth my spending 75k on? I'm already running a 640 Skull of War and 670 Scales of War. Looking at the DPS ranking for trinkets, it looks like it would only yield 550 more dps in an equal scenario. Seems like a waste to me if I don't see it drop.

Also one other question, how does heart of the wild with moonfire / wrath spam compare to normal DPS. I've been using it on Kargath when he levitates the first time to keep my DPS going but not sure if its worth stopping wrath once he drops or if I should go back to my rotation.
Depends on how much gold you have and how much you value DPS. It's the best possible trinket you can have prior to BRF (other than Mythic SoD), so is it worth 75k gold? To me, yeah. But I bought mine practically first week of release for the low, low price of 150k gold. I wouldn't start taking loans from people in order to get it though, so if you don't have the gold, don't sweat about it.

And I presume you mean Mar'gok as no other boss levitates. As far as using HotW, I haven't tried using a spellpower weapon for its duration, but the damage isn't all that great. I could be wrong on that, but since no one has bothered simming it, discussing it, etc., it's probably garb-o. I also believe they nerfed Heart/Hurricane as well, so that's out. If you're only going to use it for one portion of the fight which lasts not even 4-5 seconds, I'm fairly certain it's not worth your time. I also presume you mean the first time he goes up because each subsequent time, he becomes damage immune. Again, probably not worth your time or effort.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Chaiz » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:27 pm

Don't we lose our mastery benefits when shifting out of cat form?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.0!

Post by Nayni » Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:49 pm

Hotw is pretty much dead ever since they fixed it on the beta.

The only thing it was good for was a healing boost but that's pretty much even'd out aswell with the latest nerfs.



On Imperator I just jump thrash and pool energy otherwise.
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