Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2.3!

Face-rippin fun.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

artsdruid
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:58 pm

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by artsdruid » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:53 pm

your stat weights might be off, due to having too much of a particular stat to the point that having two multistrike trinkets isnt beneficial, sounds odd though. shouldnt be the case. also this is a gearing/trinket

User avatar
aggixx
Exalted
Posts: 2292
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by aggixx » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:51 pm

First thing that comes to mind is did you make sure you have a working use_item APL line for both trinket slots? If you don't you're going to get weird results.

And yeah as artsdruid said, different gear = different trinkets are better, but I don't think that explains everything here.
ImageImage

Batlecruiser
Honored
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:04 pm

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Batlecruiser » Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:02 am

I created the following SimC script to compare all trinket combinations with my current armory profile. (Takes some time to simulate.)

http://pastebin.com/0gKPLKEJ

User avatar
minuï
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:13 pm
Location: Paris
Contact:

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by minuï » Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:06 pm

minuï wrote:simcraft after simcraft (610-03) i can't understand why Kromog's trinket is at the top of the bis list. My results on my gear :
no need to test trigger695 i've never chance with mythic's cache :)

trigger680 / Scales691 : 40660
trophy695 / Scales691 : 40530
Scales691 / Skull680 : 40517
trophy695 / trigger680 : 40460
trophy695 / Skull580 : 40290
trigger680 / skull680 : 40252
heart695 / trigger680 : 39595
heart695 / trophy695 : 39483
actually i use trophy680+50crit / scales691 and my sim says 40270. So my Blist should be trigger695 > scales691 > trigger680 > trophy695 > skull680 > trophy680 > heart695

Somebody can explain that?
my bad! I've forgotten to paste the use trinket1 line....
so results are:
Heart695 / trigger680 : 41399
Heart680 / trigger680 : 40814
Heart680 / Scales691 : 40769
Heart680 / Skull680 : 40767
and Heart is really the best trinket even for me ^^ thx aggixx

Ehrenfailed
Honored
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Ehrenfailed » Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:52 pm

Had fun with lunar inspiration since the buff. In highmaul mythic I was abled to pull off 45k on twins even with some major fails...
After I simcrafted a bit and read the 6.1 update of this guide again, there is still one question:
So BT slightly pulls ahead of LI ins singletarget fights. But this means that you have to place almost every dot perfectly buffed,
which in some cases (some of our heroic/mythic tactics in BRF are quite chaotic) is very hard for me to do.
Even with encounters like gruul according to my sims LI should pull ahead if I dont manage to really time my BT and TF perfectly.
So could LI probably be a better choice for me?

Eltur
Honored
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:09 pm

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Eltur » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:21 am

You have 99% uptime on gruul... The only situations when you may get parried is when you take the slice or you get stunned for 1 sec ...
I had no problem with the dots at all

Ehrenfailed
Honored
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Ehrenfailed » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:19 am

Yeah well I am just curious...I did around 43k last time which is probably ok for my skill/gear, but even then I couldnt get every rip/rake fully buffed.
Also the positioning of some of my mates doesnt alllow me to stay at the boss sometimes, if I get the debuff...
In my sim for a patchwerk fight like this around 4 minutes, LI is like 2k behind BT. So I am just curious. :D
"Sadly" we dont wipe at gruul anymore, so I have not much time to play around to test this ingame. :D

Eltur
Honored
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:09 pm

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Eltur » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:51 am

Depends on the fight length and Mode... in Mythic you ALWAYS get the debuff and have around 6mins fight length (enrage)
I was able to pull off a rank 5 with 42,8k dps @ Ferals only ... but our try was bit longer and I could do few styles with 3rd CD's that you don't have at 6mins or less
But I'm still not that good as others to be honest... my DoT uptimes or dot strengths could be better sometimes... still in learning :>

If your Heroic Gruul takes 4 mins or less... you actually can use your CD's twice .. a second time inbefore the kill sky rocketing you in skada

Ehrenfailed
Honored
Posts: 51
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:42 pm

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Ehrenfailed » Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:58 pm

I am aware of that. And as I said, I am far from perfect...had better kills in randoms without logging though. ;)
But soon we will continue with our mythic progress and I really hoped that LI would be a viable choice, not only for hans+franz, maidens...

shiek
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:12 pm

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by shiek » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:35 am

so how do you guys open with the 4 piece ? 2 buffed fb's and the last one without ht to squeeze it in while 4piece is running? or do you delay berserk or something different?

User avatar
aggixx
Exalted
Posts: 2292
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm
Contact:

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by aggixx » Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:36 pm

Berserk 1 global after Rip should let you fit 3 bites in. You either need 1 omen of clarity or lust on pull for that to work out, if you have neither waiting to berserk that long will starve you on energy and you won't be able to get the 3rd bite anyway.
ImageImage

inseedious
Honored
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:15 am

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by inseedious » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:59 pm

If you manage to have a very low latency and are very quick with global CDs, you can cast even the last FB with BT. But this is almost always not depending on you, so if it happens you'll notice it, but do not aim at doing that if you are not sure, it would cost you a slight dps loss if you fail.
It is very strange how 4pc actually falls a moment before Berserk, so you can basically cast your last spell with the 50% energy discount, though not refreshing Gushing Wounds.
Courier | Nemesis EU

User avatar
Amitty
Honored
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:28 am

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Amitty » Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:13 am

You also need pretty much everything to Crit. ;)

inseedious
Honored
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:15 am

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by inseedious » Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:16 am

Amitty wrote:You also need pretty much everything to Crit. ;)
Yeah, i forgot to say that this "extra" is doable on pull only, except really lucky berserks lined with other procs and 100% crit. With the trigger trinket, something should change though.
Courier | Nemesis EU

Maldros
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:11 am

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Maldros » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:09 pm

Looking at the opener for BT i'm doin' slightly different, (hero at start situation):

-HT, Prowl, Pot, Rake, Incarnation+Berserk+Kromog Trinket, FB, TF, Rip 5CP+TF+BT, Rake+TF+BT.

Seems like the the initial 5CP FB does more DMG than 3~5 sec of Rip without BT, because of Skull proc gives me 100% crit on FB, getting 51% Crit.

inseedious
Honored
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:15 am

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by inseedious » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:45 am

Maldros wrote:Looking at the opener for BT i'm doin' slightly different, (hero at start situation):

-HT, Prowl, Pot, Rake, Incarnation+Berserk+Kromog Trinket, FB, TF, Rip 5CP+TF+BT, Rake+TF+BT.

Seems like the the initial 5CP FB does more DMG than 3~5 sec of Rip without BT, because of Skull proc gives me 100% crit on FB, getting 51% Crit.
Some time ago, it was stated by Pawkets that the initial Rip is somehow actually a gain in normal situations, even during Berserk.

I think your opener is not optimal for 4pc (I don't know if you have it). The one I think is optimal (especially with BL on pull) is the following:
- preparation (HT, Prowl and pre-pot)
- Improved Rake
- Incarnation + on-use trinket
- quick Shreds to 5 CPs (90% of times 2 are enough and won't make you waste your GCDs, but your SoW/Trigger may proc lately sometimes due to bad RNG)
- TF + Rip
- Berserk (right after Rip if BL, just wait till a comfortable amount of energy otherwise, but don't make your TF expire before your next FB)
- Shreds to 4 CP
- HT
- Rake for the 5th CP (otherwise FB if you somehow went to 5 CP with Shreds)
- 1st FB (you should manage to to a TF+BT one)
- keep on shredding to 5 CP and manage to throw other 2 bloodtaloned FB before Berserk expires (you shouldn't have to refresh Rake before Berserk expires).

The TF part can be questionable since without BL it's a bit RNG if not managed properly, but the basics of this opener are the ones a 4pc Feral should follow to pull the max damage from Gushing Wounds dot.
Courier | Nemesis EU

Aussa
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:31 pm

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Aussa » Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:58 am

inseedious wrote:
Maldros wrote:Looking at the opener for BT i'm doin' slightly different, (hero at start situation):

-HT, Prowl, Pot, Rake, Incarnation+Berserk+Kromog Trinket, FB, TF, Rip 5CP+TF+BT, Rake+TF+BT.

Seems like the the initial 5CP FB does more DMG than 3~5 sec of Rip without BT, because of Skull proc gives me 100% crit on FB, getting 51% Crit.
Some time ago, it was stated by Pawkets that the initial Rip is somehow actually a gain in normal situations, even during Berserk.

I think your opener is not optimal for 4pc (I don't know if you have it). The one I think is optimal (especially with BL on pull) is the following:
- preparation (HT, Prowl and pre-pot)
- Improved Rake
- Incarnation + on-use trinket
- quick Shreds to 5 CPs (90% of times 2 are enough and won't make you waste your GCDs, but your SoW/Trigger may proc lately sometimes due to bad RNG)
- TF + Rip
- Berserk (right after Rip if BL, just wait till a comfortable amount of energy otherwise, but don't make your TF expire before your next FB)
- Shreds to 4 CP
- HT
- Rake for the 5th CP (otherwise FB if you somehow went to 5 CP with Shreds)
- 1st FB (you should manage to to a TF+BT one)
- keep on shredding to 5 CP and manage to throw other 2 bloodtaloned FB before Berserk expires (you shouldn't have to refresh Rake before Berserk expires).

The TF part can be questionable since without BL it's a bit RNG if not managed properly, but the basics of this opener are the ones a 4pc Feral should follow to pull the max damage from Gushing Wounds dot.
Been looking around for a new opener since getting my 4pc this Wednesday - this is exactly what I was looking for! Thanks a ton for sharing it ^^

Zstriker
Honored
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:55 pm

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Zstriker » Sat Mar 07, 2015 7:50 am

those openers make you energy starved, as you blow TF before Berserk, you won't benefit much from extra energy cap, that let you put in few shred more, which also could benefit your 4pc, rather then praying you would get enough cp to fit 3rd FB, which is unlikly

User avatar
Dwade
Honored
Posts: 90
Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:14 pm

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Dwade » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:11 am

I don't have the 4pc yet but I have been adjusting my rotation to be ready for when I do. I am usually able to get 2 BT/TF Fbs off and another BT FB unless I get really unlucky with crits. You do have to delay TF a bit so I'm not sure if its worth it or not. Kinda depends on how fast you can build the first 5 combo points for rip, sometimes it goes fast while other times it can be a bit longer (and frustrating).
Image

User avatar
Amitty
Honored
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:28 am

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Amitty » Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:13 am

Zstriker wrote:those openers make you energy starved, as you blow TF before Berserk, you won't benefit much from extra energy cap, that let you put in few shred more, which also could benefit your 4pc, rather then praying you would get enough cp to fit 3rd FB, which is unlikly
The trick is to delay Berserk with 1-1.5 seconds. At that point you will be at ~90 energy. The 1-2 seconds delay will allow you to land the last FB in the last second of Berserk.

inseedious
Honored
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:15 am

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by inseedious » Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:20 pm

Zstriker wrote:those openers make you energy starved, as you blow TF before Berserk, you won't benefit much from extra energy cap, that let you put in few shred more, which also could benefit your 4pc, rather then praying you would get enough cp to fit 3rd FB, which is unlikly
Like Amitty said, in my post I wrote that you have to adapt to the situation, waiting till a comfortable amount of energy after TF+Rip, before using Berserk. Honestly, I think that the 150 energy cap Berserk gives to you is not a direct dps gain, cause you can't literally burn more than 100 energy even without BL, considering your energy regen. If you don't feel comfortable with the TF being used before Berserk, just cast your first Rip without TF and use TF+Berserk on the next global CD. It's not a relevant dps lost, as Rip damage is very small compared to Rake, Shred and FB during Berserk. From my experience, I can manage to throw the 3rd FB even without BL almost always, thanks to the 5% haste raid buff and the 2+ haste pieces you have to wear to have the 4pc. Also, OoC happens to occur really often during pull, more than during the rest of the fight.
Courier | Nemesis EU

Zstriker
Honored
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:55 pm

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Zstriker » Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:54 pm

inseedious wrote: considering your energy regen. ... Also, OoC happens to occur really often during pull, more than during the rest of the fight...
considering energy regen it's really low atm,(while Heroism/bloodlust is dependable), and OoC are also on a procing chance, that's really will cut your shreds, and FB damage as it's based on energy, so pretty much whats worth 1 30% bleed dmg from extra FB, or other attacks(+30% bleed dmg) you could fit in (from buffed TF rip ticks, more shreds , and more damaging FB as you able to saved more energy) or even maybe better to fit 3r - 4 combo points FB but for sure

inseedious
Honored
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:15 am

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by inseedious » Sat Mar 07, 2015 1:49 pm

Zstriker wrote:
inseedious wrote: considering your energy regen. ... Also, OoC happens to occur really often during pull, more than during the rest of the fight...
considering energy regen it's really low atm,(while Heroism/bloodlust is dependable), and OoC are also on a procing chance, that's really will cut your shreds, and FB damage as it's based on energy, so pretty much whats worth 1 30% bleed dmg from extra FB, or other attacks(+30% bleed dmg) you could fit in (from buffed TF rip ticks, more shreds , and more damaging FB as you able to saved more energy) or even maybe better to fit 3r - 4 combo points FB but for sure
I'm not really sure I understood what you wrote, but I'll provide you with some calculation:
During Berserk, whose duration is 15 sec, you have to spend, let's say, 12 global GDs on offensive abilities (1 is usually lost, 2/occasionally 3 are spent on HT,), that will be 3 FBs, 1 Rake and 10 Shreds. So you're gonna spend (3*50 + 1*35 + 8*40)/2 = 252.5 energy. Your energy regen will be approximately 11-12 energy/sec, considering an average amount of haste with raid buffs. And from 2p you gain 10 energy from Rip and Rake (ticking once every 3 sec), and 7-8 energy from Gushing Wounds (4 pc dot ticking every 2 sec) --> you'll gain about 190 energy during Berserk. This means that you just need 70 energy at the moment you use Berserk, to be 100% safe against energy starving and bad luck, and this is also a pessimistic approximation, since 250-190=60.
Courier | Nemesis EU

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by Kojiyama » Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:55 pm

For what it's worth, I tried experimenting with various conditionals for Berserk timing in SimC when the 4pc bonus is available and everything I tried basically resulted in exceptionally minimal (double-digit DPS) gains or losses. I'm not sure how much actual value there is doing too many rotational acrobatics in the opener trying to game the 4pc really.

It seems just as likely that you will lose DPS from trying to alter your rotation from the 'standard' APL as you are to gain from it, depending on many external factors like crit CPs, Heroism or OoC procs. Any time spent pooling because you energy starve yourself accidentally is time that will be wasted from Incarnation, which could easily offset the gains from trying to take advantage of the 4pc during Berserk due to the increased damage of Shred during Incarnation.
Image

inseedious
Honored
Posts: 113
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 10:15 am

Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.1!

Post by inseedious » Sat Mar 07, 2015 4:07 pm

Kojiyama wrote:For what it's worth, I tried experimenting with various conditionals for Berserk timing in SimC when the 4pc bonus is available and everything I tried basically resulted in exceptionally minimal (double-digit DPS) gains or losses. I'm not sure how much actual value there is doing rotational acrobatics in the opener trying to game the 4pc really.

It seems just as likely that you will lose DPS from trying to alter your rotation from the 'standard' APL as you are to gain from it, depending on many external factors like Heroism or OoC procs.
We're gonna keep this 4pc bonus for months, so there's no point in avoiding to extract the best damage from it. And I can assure you that this is not an "acrobatic" opener once you have well learnt it. And, of course, this opener is made for static single target pulls only, but, except Darmac, Maidens and Hans'gar&Franzok, all BRF bosses have a single target start lasting more than Berserk (even Furnace, if you focus on the starting mini-boss!)
Courier | Nemesis EU

Post Reply