Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2.3!

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enigmaran
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by enigmaran » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:03 pm

Do the T-18 set bonuses impact our ability priority?

Also - I assume Heroic T-18 2p is worth breaking the heroic 4p T-17?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Nayni » Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:57 pm

enigmaran wrote:Do the T-18 set bonuses impact our ability priority?

Also - I assume Heroic T-18 2p is worth breaking the heroic 4p T-17?
The priority doesn't change really, the speed which you perform it at does as you want to waste as little energy as possible at all times.

Breaking 4p T17 is a hard one, it was a 500 dps increase for me but on bosses like Gorefiend and Killrog (if you're going in atleast) T17 is still bis by far.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by aggixx » Wed Jul 08, 2015 8:49 pm

Ayleena wrote:I have a question about a couple of lower level trinkets I did not see on the trinket list:

1.) Stone of Wilds - 700 ilevel version of the Alchemist stones. Where does it fit?
2.) Baleful Trinket with crit (291 agi, 291 crit). I assume this is probably more in line with 670 ilevel trinkets, but just curious.

Mirror comes relatively early and even on normal beats everything else I could possibly get. But in the meantime...
Didn't add Stone since I figured everyone would just skip straight over Stage 5 to Stage 6. Pretty safe to assume its right between the other two stages in terms of DPS.
Probably correct, they're pretty badly budgeted.

You can download simulationcraft and import your char for exact numbers, its pretty easy.
enigmaran wrote:Do the T-18 set bonuses impact our ability priority?

Also - I assume Heroic T-18 2p is worth breaking the heroic 4p T-17?
I made a post on that here: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/160 ... st34691129
Definitely want to add that to the guide soon.

Yes.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by aggixx » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:23 am

Reworked the talent/glyph section pretty heavily and also touched up on the priority list section since a few things were... misleading at best, I suppose. Also added a Set Bonuses section where I plan to explain the strengths/weaknesses of the bonuses and any impacts they have on optimal play, but that's on the TODO list.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Batlecruiser » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:00 pm

I got pretty decent gear so far (many sockets, 7-8 in total) with 3025 crit rating (47,50%).
Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/de/character/e ... r/advanced

SimC calculates the following scale factors:
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I'm a little bit suprised by this, clearly there is crit cap.. but is the loss of value really so high?
Should I replace some crit gems by multistrike/mastery(for aoe)? Or take ms as weapon enchant?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Ayleena » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:24 pm

Normal Mirror dropped for me last night so it's kind of a moot question, but thanks for the response!

I also got the tier helmet to drop last night. I dont have two piece yet but broke up my normal 4p t-17 as I have 685 or better replacements for every one of the slots. I just can't imagine 4p normal still being better than 2x 685 and 2x 695 replacement. I am not sure how to quantify 4piece t-17 in terms of point value. Last night I ran with 2-piece for council and didnt notice a significant difference in my DPS, especially during opening.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by aggixx » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:32 pm

Batlecruiser wrote:I'm a little bit suprised by this, clearly there is crit cap.. but is the loss of value really so high?
Should I replace some crit gems by multistrike/mastery(for aoe)? Or take ms as weapon enchant?
Its because your stats are so imbalanced, you have a huge amount of crit with very little multistrike which inflates multistrike further past just the reduction crit is getting from approaching the soft cap. Swap your crit gems or enchants out for multistrike 1 by 1 until your DPS stops going up in SimC. The weapon enchant is the last thing you want to swap because the crit enchant is higher budgeted than the multistrike one.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Batlecruiser » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:21 am

aggixx wrote:
Batlecruiser wrote:I'm a little bit suprised by this, clearly there is crit cap.. but is the loss of value really so high?
Should I replace some crit gems by multistrike/mastery(for aoe)? Or take ms as weapon enchant?
Its because your stats are so imbalanced, you have a huge amount of crit with very little multistrike which inflates multistrike further past just the reduction crit is getting from approaching the soft cap. Swap your crit gems or enchants out for multistrike 1 by 1 until your DPS stops going up in SimC. The weapon enchant is the last thing you want to swap because the crit enchant is higher budgeted than the multistrike one.
Changed one ring enchant from 50 crit to 50 ms, doing less DPS than before. Factors changed a little bit, but MS is still my best stat. Strange...
I have to be at some magical crit/ms border!

ps: used 1.000.000 iterations.

Update: simmed again with a more correct result. 10 DPS gain by using 50 MS instead 50 Crit, not very much. :cry:
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Other question:
Having seed + 4PC, do you use TF on CD to maximize its uptime and 'ignore' wasting some extra energy in case you are already capped due to some lucky CC procs
or use it only at low energy and waste some TF uptime.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by aggixx » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:28 pm

Hmm, interesting. You could try simming swapping weapon enchants as well, I could be wrong about the budgeting thing mattering since it is what's causing you to soft cap.
Batlecruiser wrote:Other question:
Having seed + 4PC, do you use TF on CD to maximize its uptime and 'ignore' wasting some extra energy in case you are already capped due to some lucky CC procs
or use it only at low energy and waste some TF uptime.
During Berserk use it on CD, outside of Berserk you do the same thing as usual.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by davidrm15 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:33 pm

I have some question about gear.Atm my progress is 7/13 h, probably in 2 -3 week can clear full heroic, so im focus about bis list for heroic until can kill some mythic boss.

First question about trinkets: for single target bis trinkets are soul capacitor + seed ? and for aoe switch seed for mirror? Atm have ins trinket 6/6 stage and mirror h, if win capacitor h, what trinket should replace? I made this question because only see mythic trinkets in first page.

Second question : Crit have any "soft cap" ? because i read the last post from batlecruiser and see in some point need more mult/mastery for win more dps than more crit.

And final question is , how is the priority about 4p tier ? atm only have 4 p last tier. Can increase really high my dps ? ( this question is about pass tier or really boost my dps the new tier ).Thanks all

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by aggixx » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:43 pm

Read the trinket section in the BiS gear link, it explains trinkets a bit better.

53%, but just because there's a soft cap doesn't mean you should stop stacking crit. You have to have a deficiency in multistrike for that to happen.

Its a pretty good upgrade but we're middle of the pack or so in terms of vanq users.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Latiika » Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:14 am

Hi

Is it worth breaking HC T17 4p and 2 pc for HC HFC gear (not tier)? None of the T17 gear is warforged, so it would result in a +20 ilvl. Stats wise the HFC is a little better, swapping out haste for some crit n mastery, but losing the tier bonuses offcourse....

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by aggixx » Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:34 pm

You can import your character with and without the tier into SimulationCraft and see how they stack up. I imagine it would be fairly close but you might want to keep the set bonus anyway since on-demand burst is pretty desirable.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Kojiyama » Thu Jul 23, 2015 3:23 pm

I'm not usually one to agonize over trinket decisions, but having got the Heroic Seed yesterday to go along with my Normal+Socketed Mirror and Heroic Warforged Soul Capacitor, I'm a little unsure as to how to quantify the value of the Seed right now.

At least with Capacitor and Mirror, the value is very easy to put into numbers since they actually have direct external damage.

Sims
Capacitor pretty much met its relative sim targets in my logs this week fairly closely on the majority of fights, with the exception of Socrethar, Mannoroth, and H Kormrok.

Mirror also was pretty close to where it sims, depending on the fight style--with Iskar and Xhu'horac matching HecticAddCleave almost exactly and Assault being slightly more favorable. Mannoroth was only slightly better than Patchwerk due to the ranges involved. Socrethar and Zakuun (due to clipped fight duration) were the only fight where Mirror underperformed over the baseline Patchwerk sim.

The value of the Seed when I sim the deltas seems to be roughly 5.4% on Patchwerk sims (w/ Capacitor) and 4.6% on HecticAddCleave sims (w/ Mirror.) This is after compensating for the lack of primary stats as well, by modifying the APL on the baseline to not use the replaced trinkets in question--e.g. no use effect on the Mirror or immediate buff_cancel on Spirit Shift.

Logs
There has really been no fight for me where the Capacitor has been consistently below the rough 5.4% Seed value other than perhaps normal Kormrok, one of my Mannoroth kills, and cases where I missed an explode at the end of a fight or something. Capacitor also has huge upside potential since it really only goes up from there and I've (albeit rarely) had it as much as 8-12% of my damage on some kills.

This pretty much leads me to conclude that the only case where I would swap the Capacitor out for the Seed is in situations where the Capacitor is a significant mechanical detriment. However, I have yet to really feel that way about the proc since they hotfixed the cancelaura functionality.

The Mirror is a lot more hit or miss, with it significantly out-performing the Capacitor on the obvious fights (Iskar, Assault, Xhul'horac, and Archimonde if used for add waves) but dropping below the 5.4% Seed target on a number of fights, such as Zakuun, Socrethar, Reaver, Gorefiend, and Kormrok if not used on hands.

Conclusion
All this being said, I'm inclined to basically use the Seed instead of the Mirror on Reaver, Gorefiend, Zakuun, Socrethar, and possibly Kormrok. Velhari seems like a total toss-up in raw damage terms but Seed may be better strategically. Seed is likely better on M Council since the cleave aspect of Mirror is not really in line with the burst strats right now.

The only fight where I am tempted to swap the Capacitor out on is Mannoroth and potentially Kilrogg (after derping out on the 4.5m explode I missed in the spirit realm this week because I forgot to press the button. :P) Seed+Mirror seems like a good combo on Kilrogg due to the buff and given that the Mirror has a lot of value in both the spirit realm and in dealing with the Terrors.

Anyway, just wanted to get some feedback on these thoughts and experience from anyone who may have had the Seed for a bit longer. It
s always difficult to swap out a known quantity for something somewhat nebulous and I am actually a little wary of putting even more eggs in the 3 minute cooldown basket with the Seed given that fight lengths are still in quite a lot of flux right now.

(Also, happy to pull this out into its own thread if that makes sense... but lots of trinket discussions in here, so seemed appropriate.)
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Tremnen » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:52 pm

shouldnt be to hard to see how much extra damage seed is giving you. just zoom in o a log for the time in beserk after the first 15 seconds. Would require a bit of algebra but set it up once on wolfram and it would be ready everytime.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Kojiyama » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:51 pm

I dunno if that's totally true because Berserk semi-negates the T18 set bonuses but can offset potential bad luck with them. It's certainly easy to ballpark it as I did in the sim, but my point was there is no concrete value you can look to in order to see Seed performance like the other trinkets.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by meuporg » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:29 am

hello, first of all sorry if my english is bad i'm a frog eater :(

I analysed some logs on Zakuun in order to improve my dps, more specificaly, the optimization of my trinkets (Seed of Creation + Soul Capacitor).

My log : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/vG ... amage-done

I saw that my uptimes on RIP are lowers(about 85%) than others players who did better ranks. It's because when my trinket soul capacitor is active, i'm doing ferocious bite instead of refreshing RIP to do more damage when my proc end. That's why i don't know why people are doing RIP on pull while soul capacitor is up ?

Last question, when I burst with Berserk and Seed of Creation, sould i use a GCD for my bloodtalons procs when I don't have to refresh RIp and Rake or should i use my GCD for one more shred in order to get one or twho more combot points ?

Thanks !

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Jagaroth » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:22 pm

I have had a Heroic Seed for 2 weeks as well as all of the other trinkets in heroic for longer. Currently I find that I use it on almost every fight even though the berserk and 4pc do not synergize well. The steady damage that you deal by having the long duration on tiger's fury and always having 100% buffed bleeds "feels" better in application than the other trinkets. It may just be because my gear is skewed towards mastery at the moment because of drops but that is the feeling that I have had over the last couple of weeks.

I also recently picked up a mythic fel spring coil and it seems to be rather strong on sustained cleave fights. Capacitor is probably better but need to sim a few things and see how it evens out.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Kojiyama » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:39 pm

meuporg wrote:I saw that my uptimes on RIP are lowers(about 85%) than others players who did better ranks. It's because when my trinket soul capacitor is active, i'm doing ferocious bite instead of refreshing RIP to do more damage when my proc end. That's why i don't know why people are doing RIP on pull while soul capacitor is up ?
You should probably still use Rip on the pull with Spirit Shift up. You will simply lose more from the missing Rip ticks than the ~30% extra damage on the FB. The extra damage on FB from Spirit Shift is only equal to about 2 1/2 Rip ticks so it just isn't worth giving up that Rip uptime, especially since you will still get some Spirit Shift damage from the Rip ticks as well.

It's possible that in the opener you could get your CP up fast enough after the FB to make it mostly neutral, but it's really not worth trying to game it IMO.

I could see the argument for using it if Rip was very high in its pandemic range since you likely could get it back up again without missing more than 1 tick or something, but the timing would have to be very much in your favor for it ever to be significantly worthwhile.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by kravotir » Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:42 am

So it seems that summonstone is down now so the BIS list is no longer available.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Shakrane » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:47 am


kravotir
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by kravotir » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:19 pm

Shakrane wrote:https://onuraslan.github.io/SummonStone ... .html#gear

Here are some archives!
Thanks!

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Acvodad » Mon Aug 17, 2015 6:53 am

Jagaroth wrote:I have had a Heroic Seed for 2 weeks as well as all of the other trinkets in heroic for longer. Currently I find that I use it on almost every fight even though the berserk and 4pc do not synergize well. The steady damage that you deal by having the long duration on tiger's fury and always having 100% buffed bleeds "feels" better in application than the other trinkets. It may just be because my gear is skewed towards mastery at the moment because of drops but that is the feeling that I have had over the last couple of weeks.

I also recently picked up a mythic fel spring coil and it seems to be rather strong on sustained cleave fights. Capacitor is probably better but need to sim a few things and see how it evens out.
I agree. I like the increased time on Tiger's fury. But I think for fights that you use Mirror trinket I think it's best paired with another trinket with agi on it. So that the mirrors deal more dmg.

12x heroic kills on Socrethar so far. Not a single soul cap has dropped for us and I bonus rolled every time. Everyone else in guild has gotten it on bonus roll, except me :cry: Hoping for mythic one soon.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Sashimi » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:26 am

Small Question on rake clipping

Scenario: rake has SR and TF buff and has a duration of 10+ sec or so give or take, is it worth to clip that early for a fully buffed Rake with (TF, SR, BT buffed) ?

thanks to anyone to answer this quick question

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by physcx » Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:30 am

Sashimi wrote:Small Question on rake clipping

Scenario: rake has SR and TF buff and has a duration of 10+ sec or so give or take, is it worth to clip that early for a fully buffed Rake with (TF, SR, BT buffed) ?

thanks to anyone to answer this quick question
Yes clip that rake and get the harder ticking one up. The difference in damage between applying rake again (which hits on application as well as applies the bleed) and a shred (your other cp generator) isn't that large so the 3 extra ticks of 30% increased rake dmg will more than make up for it.

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