Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2.3!

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by aggixx » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:44 pm

I'm sure there is some contrived situation where you would intentionally neglect to refresh for a stronger rake, but in general you should always do so regardless of the duration of the rake or how much of an increase in damage it is. The guide would say otherwise if that was not the case.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Sashimi » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:36 pm

thanks for the feedback helped alot :)

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Saij » Fri Sep 04, 2015 8:04 am

Hello my fellow Cats.

I have a question about which trinket to use.
Currently I'm raiding HFC in normal mode and have the Skull of War and Stone of the Elements as trinkets.
Now I wonder which of those two trinkets I should replace with Mirror of the Blademaster (if I have the chance to get it ^^) and which trinket I should keep.

My armory profile can be found here: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/m ... aij/simple
Is it better to stay with the 351 versatility of the Stone and use the proc with agility or should I use the 343 agility and the crit proc from the Skull?
(Seed is not available for me at the moment and I don't like the Soul Capacitor - so this isn't an option for me)

What do you guys think?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by aggixx » Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:53 pm

Generally Stone is better than Skull of War at these gear levels because Skull's proc starts to go further and further past the soft crit cap as you get more gear. I would go with Stone + Mirror.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Saij » Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:31 am

What is the current crit soft cap?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Xanzara » Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:09 am

53%

(because of the double crit chance mechanic making 50% the full crit, and the 3% to account for the fact that bosses has a 3% crit reduction)

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by aggixx » Fri Sep 11, 2015 9:52 pm

Updated the rotation section with a slightly different opener recommendation. There is some cases where you might want to still use the old opener (Incarnation after Rake) but for the most part the new one is better and easier to execute.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Trepex » Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:30 am

Are the Pawn setups still valid after the bleed buffs? I'm guessing mastery is worth a bit more now.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Zstriker » Mon Sep 14, 2015 4:20 am

Trepex wrote:Are the Pawn setups still valid after the bleed buffs? I'm guessing mastery is worth a bit more now.
you put ur own stats wise there

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Niff » Mon Sep 14, 2015 9:34 am

Do any of you switch around with trinkets? My main question here is on which boss would you use mirror+seed over soulcap + seed?

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Karyy » Mon Sep 14, 2015 12:45 pm

I don't think there's a situation nowadays where you would swap out soul cap for another trinket, but multiple ones for swapping mirror and seed. I suppose if you absolutely need to push one target and cant afford to have the damage split during progression.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by xfr » Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:16 pm

On add fights like assault, Iskar and Xhul swapping seed for mirror has given me excellent results and I guess many ferals are doing the same.

Similarly, swapping multistrike for mastery gear can yield significant gains in HFC. In fact, in full heroic gear (admittedly, with a few +75crit gems) the simulationcraft weights for HecticAddCleave put my mastery rating above crit and even slightly above Wdps (Agility=17.00, Ap=15.26, MasteryRating=10.97, Dps=10.08, CritRating=8.42). I now tend to swap a mastery enchanted cloak and mastery off-set pieces for many HFC fights and IMO, it makes rake a really impressively strong spell (as much overall damage as FB if it ticks fully for a fraction of the cost).

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by aggixx » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:11 pm

Trepex wrote:Are the Pawn setups still valid after the bleed buffs? I'm guessing mastery is worth a bit more now.
They could probably use a touch up, but the priority doesn't change much. Worst case it might suggest something that is actually better by a very small amount as a % or 2 worse. The big thing with mastery is its value on multiple targets, and for that its so high regardless that I doubt it changes any outcomes.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by xahn » Tue Oct 06, 2015 1:01 pm

Is it worth delaying rip after the open until you get 2 FB's out while using the Capacitor trinket? a friend of mine use rake, shred, shred, CDS, FB, shred, shred, shred, FB, shred shred rake, rip

I checked some logs and most druids still use the normal open that I am used to which is, rake, shred, shred, CDS rip, shred, shred, shred FB, shred shred rake FB.

Anyway, just asking for him as I'm not playing anymore and not sure how that capacitor trinket works, he said he benefits from it with using FBs first, I'm unsure about that since most druids don't do it thus why I am asking, thanks.

Ofcourse the pre-pull routine doesn't change.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Bluewulf » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:06 am

xahn wrote:Is it worth delaying rip after the open until you get 2 FB's out while using the Capacitor trinket? a friend of mine use rake, shred, shred, CDS, FB, shred, shred, shred, FB, shred shred rake, rip

I checked some logs and most druids still use the normal open that I am used to which is, rake, shred, shred, CDS rip, shred, shred, shred FB, shred shred rake FB.

Anyway, just asking for him as I'm not playing anymore and not sure how that capacitor trinket works, he said he benefits from it with using FBs first, I'm unsure about that since most druids don't do it thus why I am asking, thanks.

Ofcourse the pre-pull routine doesn't change.
Rip first
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by xahn » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:25 pm

Bluewulf wrote: Rip first
Hey man, I already knew that. but I asked for elaboration as to why, because when I told him rip first, he started talking to me about how the trinket works, and since I haven't played in 6.2 I couldn't answer him, he went with how strong it is to take advantage of that trinket on the opening by using FB instead of rip
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by aggixx » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:49 pm

The nature of Soul Capacitor's proc tends to get people of the mindset that it's in your best interest to get the biggest Spirit Eruption you can, which simply is not true. Your goal (at least in most cases) is still to deal the most total damage, and by neglecting Rip during the duration of the proc you end up losing more damage due the Rip downtime both instead and outside of the proc than the ~30% of a Ferocious Bite you gain. It can very occasionally be beneficial to sacrifice some small amount of Rip uptime to fit an extra bite into Soul Capacitor (as is the same with any temporary damage boost), but forsaking Rip entirely when it does more than double the damage for the same combo points and less energy is not mathematically sound.

Biting during your first Soul Cap and then ripping after actually isn't that much worse, but it is worse. And both methods are inferior by a fair amount to delaying Soul Cap ~5.5s, which allows you to Rip before it procs and still fit 2 Bites in. Its discussed here and there's a WeakAura that will coordinate the gear swapping for you.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Bysket » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:50 pm

This can be found in the soul cap topic. There was a brief discussion about the opening rotation. The initial proc can be delayed by resetting the internal cd of the trinket, which is also discussed within that topic. However, I don't believe it would affect the opening rotation by doing so. I'd imagine you'd want to get all of your bleeds rolling then FB like there is no tomorrow!
Kojiyama wrote:I simmed some potential options the other day and there seemed to be very minimal benefit in doing anything specifically different when the proc was up. I was able to see some extremely marginal gains from using FB over Rip in some narrow timing bands, but none really seemed very worthwhile to use in practice.

Altering the rotation will lead to lower Rip uptime (as you will already use FB in any situation that you can safely) and ~30% of a FB is only worth about 2 Rip ticks.

This is different than something like Gorefiend's extra damage phase where you could potentially sneak in 100% extra damage over a Rip and most likely get your Rip back up before you lost 6 Rip ticks.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by aggixx » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:57 pm

Also note that Kojiyama's "narrow timing bands" are referring to things that happen with the "random" collision of timers during the middle of the fight. The opener is a bit different since you know it will be the same timing every time, and biting in that specific timing isn't beneficial.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Kvothe » Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:46 am

Is there a reason to use incarnation --> rake in the opener?

If you rake while stealthed it will do the same damage as it would if you used it with the incarnation buff up, then use incarnation so you get 1 more second of buff uptime, but you lose 1 global. Keeping in mind that we're not a global capped class, wouldn't rake-->incarnation be the superior choice?

Regarding late refresh on rake when it's fully buffed (incarnation, tf, bt), would it be better to refresh after it falls off and get that extra buffed tick? You'd lose <0.5s uptime to get a tick thats at least double than a normal tick. With Rip it should be the same, if you wait for a tf + bt rip to fall off and then apply an unbuffed one.

What's the time margin you have to renew it for it to still be a dps gain? 0.1 seconds might not be realistic, but 0.2-0.3 should be managable to make sure you dont overlap them.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Bluewulf » Fri Oct 09, 2015 5:17 pm

As for why you incarnation at 1,

The reason is as you mentioned, the cost of a global. We are extremely global capped during our CD's and getting that incarnation global out of the way allows you to take full advantage of a 10s trinket (soul cap). And now that you can use it while stealthed you really aren't losing any of its duration since you can open on the boss immediately.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Batlecruiser » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:41 am

Kvothe wrote: If you rake while stealthed it will do the same damage as it would if you used it with the incarnation buff up, then use incarnation so you get 1 more second of buff uptime, but you lose 1 global. Keeping in mind that we're not a global capped class, wouldn't rake-->incarnation be the superior choice?

Regarding late refresh on rake when it's fully buffed (incarnation, tf, bt), would it be better to refresh after it falls off and get that extra buffed tick? You'd lose <0.5s uptime to get a tick thats at least double than a normal tick. With Rip it should be the same, if you wait for a tf + bt rip to fall off and then apply an unbuffed one.
Using Incarnation before Rake also enhances the chance to execute 2 FBs during Spirit Shift, which is otherwise not always the case (bad crits). Furthermore each GCD during Spirit Shift is simply "wasted" damage.
I don't know if this opener is also used when delaying spirit shift by 4-5 seconds using trinket swapping (to line it up with Maalus).

Regarding your Rake question, I'm doing the same thing, because the final tick does double the damage. So theoretically you can reapply Rake up to 3 seconds as it ticks every 3s without losing damage compared to pre-applied Rake before expiring the fully buffed one.

I don't think this can be applied for Rip, too. First, you would have to wait with 5CPs and pool energy until it expires, which is a bad idea. Secondly, using FB instead and exactly getting 5CPs back, when Rip expires is unlikely to happen. ^^ I only do this, if I'm completely out of buffs (no BT + HT).

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Batlecruiser » Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:50 am

Currently, I'm playing with Soul Cap M & Seed H, would you swap Seed H with Censer M or Mirrors M?
I simmed Soul Cap M / Censer M with +300-400 DPS, I guess Mirrors M was slightly higher, too.
But I don't wanna miss Seed's playstyle.. :(
Nevertheless, I never got Censer or Mirror, but is it an option until Archi M kill? Currently, we are progressing him.

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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by aggixx » Sat Oct 10, 2015 6:32 am

Batlecruiser wrote:Using Incarnation before Rake also enhances the chance to execute 2 FBs during Spirit Shift, which is otherwise not always the case (bad crits). Furthermore each GCD during Spirit Shift is simply "wasted" damage.
Yep, these two reasons mainly. Incarnation after Rake can be ever so slightly better with different trinkets, but I changed the recommendation since it is easier to execute and more relevant to the gear people are likely to have right now.
Kvothe wrote:Regarding late refresh on rake when it's fully buffed (incarnation, tf, bt), would it be better to refresh after it falls off and get that extra buffed tick? You'd lose <0.5s uptime to get a tick thats at least double than a normal tick. With Rip it should be the same, if you wait for a tf + bt rip to fall off and then apply an unbuffed one.

What's the time margin you have to renew it for it to still be a dps gain? 0.1 seconds might not be realistic, but 0.2-0.3 should be managable to make sure you dont overlap them.
The guide does mention this, you must've missed it. I definitely would not try to do it with Rip. Time margin is just tick_time*(multiplier-1), so for rake its ~3 seconds.
Batlecruiser wrote:Currently, I'm playing with Soul Cap M & Seed H, would you swap Seed H with Censer M or Mirrors M?
I simmed Soul Cap M / Censer M with +300-400 DPS, I guess Mirrors M was slightly higher, too.
But I don't wanna miss Seed's playstyle.. :(
Nevertheless, I never got Censer or Mirror, but is it an option until Archi M kill? Currently, we are progressing him.
Similar situation here, I'm using Censer and Soul Cap swapping to Seed on Gorefiend.
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Re: Pawkets' Feral DPS Guide & FAQ -- Updated for 6.2!

Post by Thandorr » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:31 pm

One question that was asked that I am wondering as well: is it still optimal to use the incarnation on pull even if you're using the swap WA?

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