6.1 Discussion

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Grif
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6.1 Discussion

Post by Grif » Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:35 pm

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/3589 ... tch-notes/

There are NO feral changes to be had. Where is our AoE? I'm sure it's all tuned for t17, our tier makes us pretty decent at AoE but what about after that? Classes shouldn't be balanced around set bonuses.

I personally hate how feral feels and plays now. I started playing feral in SoO, snapshotting and bleeds were the big deal. I was expecting our ferocious bite to get nerfed (as it is crazy strong in PvP and burst) with a rip buff to compensate to help make us more of a sustained kind of DPS. Now it's all about maxing your burst and CD usage.. I want feral to return to its prior state, I'm a sustained DPS kind of player, this Burst and cool down kind of play is shit.
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Mooninites
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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Mooninites » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:00 pm

I could be wrong, but isn't Force of Nature getting a buff? 80% attack power buff on the treants, Its probably still the weakest choice in that tier, but who knows. For the large part yes, no feral changes. Personally I'm okay with that

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Fayled » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:05 pm

That's only a consolidation notes of all the things that's happened so far in the PTR cycle.

It is not the class balance patch which is slated for sometime this coming week or soon tm.

Put your pitchfork down and if you really hate the current state of Feral that much, it's honestly time to think about a new class. Doubtful it'll change that much to a point it'll make you happy.

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Kojiyama » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:21 am

Actually, Celestalon just posted this on Twitter:
Celestalon @Celestalon · 4h 4 hours ago
@MrMaelzo These patch notes contain the aforementioned changes. They're ahead of the current PTR build.
So this would imply that it does appear to include the changes he was referencing.

That's pretty disappointing, actually.
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Krafti
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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Krafti » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:38 am

Feral was fun it's been left alone because of pvp... I hate pvp and didn't choose a feral because of pvp but because I enjoyed the rotation and managing of bleeds , time to roll rogue or monk or simply quit the game

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by aggixx » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:56 am

Pretty sure its not been left alone because of PvP, they'd be more than happy to destroy PvP balance for the sake of fixing a spec in PvE (and then deal with the consequences later). Arms is a good example of this.
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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Tremnen » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:08 am

This is disheartening I wish I knew if we were getting buffed so I can start asking for balance gear from my raid...

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Fayled » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:59 am

Well I stand corrected.

I had anticipated at worst this was just the first wave of changes and there was a lot more to come, but if this is what their 85% of talking amounted too for a class balance patch then well shit.

Some tweaks on unused talents. Exciting.

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Dargaron » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:27 am

I've started collecting my balance gear in case we end up with some big AoE-fests in BRF.

Those balance changes are underwhelming. Good luck getting any answers from the dev brick wall.

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Vami » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:08 am

I keep hoping for the best each time they announce new patch notes. Jk.

Never before have I this seriously considered rerolling. I absolutely love playing feral and I'd hate to play anything else than feral. But right now the thought of going to BRF progress as a feral just doesn't feel like a good idea; I'd be bringing the whole raid and guild down by playing a spec that doesn't do anything that well and is utter shit on certain things.

My paladin is fairly geared now, so I guess I'll be going retribution in BRF if they don't do give ferals any love in time. I'd hate to do that though. I don't want to reroll. I love being feral. I don't want to switch even if it was only during progress.

It's hard to believe that they'd let a spec go into a raid in a state like this. Are they comparing only single target and checking that ferals seem ok there? Do they know that switching to short-lived adds is a thing? Do they realize that AOE is important? Do they get that raidwide cooldowns are valuable? How do they decide what to buff? I don't know what to say anymore. I hate complaining about this, too, but this is the first time I'd legitimately leave a spec out from progress just because it's just so much worse than any other option there is.

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by TheLOOGE » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:12 am

Well, I've decided to double down on my Twitter crusade. Not sure if it'll do any good or if I'll just wind up being muted or whatever but I'm not just going to sit idle while we get passed over and shit on by practically every other viable raiding spec or class. Seriously, the only thing they touched was Force of Nature. The buff was pretty big but it still sims a mile behind Incarnation. So this winds up being just a slap to the face really.

They must have different data than we do. Maybe that's why they've taken this "No need for feral changes, you're fine." Stance. I can't imagine they know something we don't. Then again...

Ugh. I don't know. Just fight to stay relevant boys. That's all I can say.

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Nayni » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:26 am

Kojiyama wrote:Actually, Celestalon just posted this on Twitter:
Celestalon @Celestalon · 4h 4 hours ago
@MrMaelzo These patch notes contain the aforementioned changes. They're ahead of the current PTR build.
So this would imply that it does appear to include the changes he was referencing.

That's pretty disappointing, actually.
If that's the case it's borderline pathetic.

Edit: It's actualy getting retarded now. All I read is more buffs to warriors and more buffs to hunters who are doing fucking fine already.
Starting to guess nobody at blizzard actualy ever specced feral and has any clue what the fuck is going on with this spec.
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TheLOOGE
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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by TheLOOGE » Sat Jan 24, 2015 11:41 am

Lord I hate going to MMO Champ forums. I'm reading a lot of, "This isn't a true balancing patch. They won't do a massive sweep of balancing changes until 6.2. They definitely won't do it mid-BRF."

Ok. That's all fine and dandy to believe if you're a Feral and aren't getting any sort of balancing tweaks. But when literally everyone else around us is getting these tweaks, I'm left with my head spinning.

I posted this on my Twitter and I'm certainly not trying to plug my own Twitter but this is just the mindset I have currently and I think I hit some good points as it pertains to the state of our class. Nothing that we haven't already addressed here before in various places but I guess you could say I'm simply consolidating the situation as I see it:

Part of me wonders if these patch notes are all that we can expect for 6.1. The part of me that plays Feral has this bad feeling of... Yes. Yes it is.

I truly hate the thought of abandoning Feral. To watch this spec free fall in every measurable raid metric with nonexistent Developer communication or transparency is incredibly disheartening. And it's not nerfs that are responsible. It's tweaking every other class and spec around us while we go untouched. So while we aren't being nerfed directly, it's almost as if we're being passively nerfed and because of that, we are falling out of relevancy. No clear niche, no utility, Balance is just a better spec as a whole. Being a melee spec is already a strike against us as raid encounters get more complex. So I'm left to wonder what the future holds for Ferals? Of that, I am uncertain. But I am certain of one thing. The current track looks dark and bleak. What a shame.

/emo

Still not ready to jump ship. But make no mistake, the ship is sinking. We can only hope that the notes posted for 6.1 at this point are far from being final and with that small glimpse of hope, I'm going to continue to fight for the cause.

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Aussa » Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:43 pm

Im just going to be working on my Warlock, with a little bit of luck I can be ready to change main a week into BRF if nothing happens.

Really makes me sad, as I've literally come back to WoW to play WoD and the spec's I've always played both just get dumpstered and left to die.

Really really sad :(

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by aggixx » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:04 pm

I know a lot of you guys are upset but let's try to keep the doom and gloom within reasonable limits. Keeping it real is fine but let's not act like this is the apocalypse.
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Krafti
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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Krafti » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:07 pm

With all due respect, whos going to take a feral to BRF over a Monk/Ret/Rogue ?
Whos going to take a feral over any ranged ?

I'm sure there are some demented raid leaders out there but the truth is... this situation SUCKS and shows a huge lack of respect and understanding.

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Kojiyama » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:18 pm

Yeah, I agree that it's not really time for doom and gloom quite yet. I'm sure they will get to a class balancing pass at some point--although he did kinda over-sell this patch since it isn't super-interesting for anyone really. If anything, I'm actually surprised that fewer talents were touched in the talent balancing pass.

Lunar Inspiration probably could have really used a slight buff of some sort, considering it's only really good on a cleave fights and, even then, gets wrecked by the cleave options other classes have.

Soul of the Forest could probably have used a slight bump as well and it doesn't seem like Force of Nature got buffed enough to be viable.

Renewal still feels totally pointless option compared to the other options and also in the face of how much we already heal with Healing Touch.
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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by TheLOOGE » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:30 pm

I know a lot of you guys are upset but let's try to keep the doom and gloom within reasonable limits. Keeping it real is fine but let's not act like this is the apocalypse.
https://twitter.com/Tinderhoof/status/5 ... 9587491841

We're all sad. And more than a little annoyed. Some of us want to use these forums as a place to air our grievances. Granted, I wish more of it would be directed to the official class forums or to @WarcraftDevs but some people aren't as comfortable doing that. Everything so far I've read here is completely within reason, but what is happening is that you're seeing a collective uproarious reaction to a situation that calls for such a reaction. Give it a couple days and it'll die down. But for now, break out your tiny violins.

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Nayni » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:31 pm

aggixx wrote:I know a lot of you guys are upset but let's try to keep the doom and gloom within reasonable limits. Keeping it real is fine but let's not act like this is the apocalypse.

Even though I'm obviously not a fan of current events, it's still not dooms day.

All we can do is hope for fixes before BRF and if not, it's just hope for next tier or even expansion. Let's not forget how shit Ret paladin was in all trough mop and expansions before it. The ret from my guild and friend has been waiting for this day for so long :)
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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Aussa » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:35 pm

aggixx wrote:I know a lot of you guys are upset but let's try to keep the doom and gloom within reasonable limits. Keeping it real is fine but let's not act like this is the apocalypse.
Heh, to be fair - When was the last time Feral was in this bad of a spot? Because I frankly don't remember it being this bad since Vanilla (I didn't play during Cata so have no idea how it was during that).

I think what mostly frustrates people, myself included, is the fact that we hear them talking about "Oh we are aware "insert class that isn't feral druid" is in need of changes" but never once have I read or heard them say anything about Feral. This leaves you with a sour feeling of being forgotten, which makes for these "Doom and Gloom" responses.

If I KNEW that they were aware of the existance of our problems and aknowledged them I wouldn't be so sad about it all. Sadly that is not the case.

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by aggixx » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:40 pm

Kojiyama wrote:Yeah, I agree that it's not really time for doom and gloom quite yet. I'm sure they will get to a class balancing pass at some point--although he did kinda over-sell this patch since it isn't super-interesting for anyone really. If anything, I'm actually surprised that fewer talents were touched in the talent balancing pass.

Lunar Inspiration probably could have really used a slight buff of some sort, considering it's only really good on a cleave fights and, even then, gets wrecked by the cleave options other classes have.

Soul of the Forest could probably have used a slight bump as well and it doesn't seem like Force of Nature got buffed enough to be viable.

Renewal still feels totally pointless option compared to the other options and also in the face of how much we already heal with Healing Touch.
Yeah I agree, the things they touched on for us they didn't actually change in any way that would make us care. Force of Nature is now tuned to be equal to SotF which indicates to me they have no clue that Incarnation gives you Improved Rake for 45+ seconds and Savage Roar for 80+ which makes it miles and miles ahead of the other choices, and Renewal is still completely pointless because the very rare occasion where we actually want to burst heal ourselves you can just use a Healing Tonic.

Force of Nature should just be scrapped completely for Feral (or everybody but resto?) because that talent is completely unfun and uninteresting, but at the same time I understand them not having the desire to do so for 6.1 so I'm not going to complain too much. Soul of the Forest definitely could be buffed to be brought up near the level of Incarnation, there's nothing wrong with its design as a passive it just needs a good tuning up to be competitive with the goliath that is Incarnation.

Lunar Inspiration could use a diversification because currently its confined to a very specific niche, and one that its not even that much better than Bloodtalons at (sustained 2-3 target DPS). The very least they could do is give it a fair buff to really make it shine in that situation which would also make it a little more competitive in less than perfect scenarios for it. Personally I think making it scale with mastery and then give it a small 15-30% nerf to counterbalance the change would be a good route.

The really disappointing thing is that while there are several wonderful mechanics they could give us to replace the talent slots of Soul of the Forest, Force of Nature, or even Lunar Inspiration and change the dynamic of their respective tiers a bit, and while thats unlikely to happen in a mid-expansion patch they didn't even touch the talents at all and they're still completely garbage.
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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Nayni » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:55 pm

I think the fact that Feral hasn't been touched, in either a good or bad way in about 10 fix/patch notes is what most people are frustrated with.

Atleast for me, I could live with the fact of beeing mediocre and still relevant enough to be taken to raid based on my spec. But as I said, in the past 10 patch notes I've read nothing about Feral apart from actual tooltip fixes while I'm seeing classes that are already over-represented get buff after buff (small or big).

Just gotta hang in there and pray
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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Zstriker » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:09 pm

aggixx wrote:
Force of Nature should just be scrapped completely for Feral (or everybody but resto?) because that talent is completely unfun and uninteresting, but at the same time I understand them not having the desire to do so for 6.1 so I'm not going to complain too much. Soul of the Forest definitely could be buffed to be brought up near the level of Incarnation, there's nothing wrong with its design as a passive it just needs a good tuning up to be competitive with the goliath that is Incarnation.
it was fun and awesome in pvp during last patch of mop as controll or flag interraption or as more dots in world pvp with RoR trinket proc -.-, but now we have range attack as moonfire which could have it's use and incarnation is too powerfull, so indeed this talents become really useless

I just wish they buff up aoe attacks,
as for other rotation with more gear it will be more fluent
and I still will be play feral spec, no matter if they even put it low on dps charts, I love it , less competion from all those `doom and gloom` spreaders

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Tinderhoof » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:47 pm

Aussa wrote:Heh, to be fair - When was the last time Feral was in this bad of a spot? Because I frankly don't remember it being this bad since Vanilla (I didn't play during Cata so have no idea how it was during that).
The entire of Tier 11 save the first 2 weeks, and 2 weeks of Nefarian. We were dead last in every category unless we had a broken mechanic (which they would quickly fix). We were awful in single target, AoE, and cleave. It wasn't until fire lands they buffed us.
At least now we are middle of the pack for single target (at high gear level) and #1 at heroic gear levels. Don't get me wrong we are in a bad place and are set to quickly be over lapped as gear gets better, but we are hardly in the "Worst place we have ever been".

I agree there are several areas we could be improved which include lots of our dead talents. In the end we continue to scale poorly. They hate that word when it gets misused, but in our case it really is a scaling problem. I am doing what I can to draw attention to our issues, but I can only do so much right now. Keep positive feedback going on the main forums and here. Please no sky is falling. There are problems, but nothing that can't be fixed.

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Re: 6.1 Patch Notes

Post by Dwade » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:03 pm

Krafti wrote:With all due respect, whos going to take a feral to BRF over a Monk/Ret/Rogue ?
Whos going to take a feral over any ranged ?

I'm sure there are some demented raid leaders out there but the truth is... this situation SUCKS and shows a huge lack of respect and understanding.
If you are a good player they have no reason not to take you. Maybe its because I play on a very low population server but I am never asked to sit from a raid. I am consistently in the top 3 for damage expect for imperator where I drop down to 6-7 which is not terrible. We have a lot of utility in the form of off-healing, allowing your group to get by with fewer healer potentially. AoE does suck and it is unfortunate that there is only a few different talents worth taking. If you are someone who loves to play feral though its not like it can get worse. If you want to play the top sim spec then you should reroll. I'm pretty confident they would not just completely ignore our spec. You only have to look back to the 6.0 pre-patch to see that they will buff us if we are under-performing by a significant amount.
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