Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

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Zenomni
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Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Zenomni » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:45 am

Ok so i just saw moonfire getting a 20% buff on mmo. Was there some kind of bug or are they trying to bring it more in line with blood talons? And if yes has anyone cracked the numbers ?

Eniel
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Eniel » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:49 am

My guess would be that they are trying to bring it closer to blood talons.

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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by ShmooDude » Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:37 am

When I simmed it with my gear single target I got...

36.4k CoS
37.1k LI pre-buff
37.8k LI post-buff
39.3k BT

So yeah, probably to bring it closer to BT.

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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by inseedious » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:09 am

I hope this buff will definitely pull LI ahead BT for 2-3 target fights. Currently, BT is the choice for all BRF encounters, including Maidens, where you can spend your free energy on the buffed Swipe and easily have Rip even on all 3 Maidens thanks to his almost 100% effective double CP.
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Unsullied » Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:30 am

Still think i would choose LI over BT prebuff on maiden, i still used buffed swipes with LI and got a quite nice uptime on RIP/RAKE!

But as you say, it will now be huge on fights like Maiden / Twins for the future.

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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by artsdruid » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:07 pm

i felt LI to be more enjoyable for maidens heroic rather than always having to play bt. i like both, but with this buff i imagine it will be nice. might be to help compensate our multitarget (so only maidens really) so that very class didnt just reroll windwalker for maidens to pull 10k more dps than everyone else on avg.

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Vami
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Vami » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:13 pm

I enjoy playing moonfirekitty so it's nice that it actually is a dps increase to use it somewhere now! Can be a moonfirekitty without feeling bad about it! :> But is there any other fight where it would be viable now besides Maidens? Brackenspore? Hans and Frans?

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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Zyb » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:51 pm

If you do HM, Twins for sure.

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aggixx
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by aggixx » Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:43 pm

Tested in game and it is a 20% multiplicative buff to both the direct and periodic damage, on top of the previous 5% buff.

It lost some ground in 6.1 when Shred was buffed by 20% and it was only buffed by 5% so I'm sure they're compensating for that, and then some. I'll update the graphs in my guide in a bit, but aside from sim numbers you should see a stronger presence of Moonfire in LI-favorable fights like Maidens, Hans & Franz, and maaaybe Flamebender. You'll also see a larger penalty for sticking with BT on fights that are very suited to LI (like Twin Ogrons). Overall, optimal usage of the talent should be a bit less finicky and not require the perfect scenario for it to be truly useful instead of just "oh yeah I could play LI here".
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TheLOOGE
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by TheLOOGE » Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:51 pm

Possibly a confirmation bias, but on Mythic H&F I definitely felt a dps increase swapping over from BT to LI. BT attempts I'd be sitting between 40-42k, LI attempts I was consistently between 43-45k. The LI buffs are real. REAL I say!

Now if they could just solve Ferocious Bite and the bug epidemic we've seen so far this week, I'd be a super happy camper!

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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by inseedious » Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:59 pm

aggixx wrote:Tested in game and it is a 20% multiplicative buff to both the direct and periodic damage, on top of the previous 5% buff.

It lost some ground in 6.1 when Shred was buffed by 20% and it was only buffed by 5% so I'm sure they're compensating for that, and then some. I'll update the graphs in my guide in a bit, but aside from sim numbers you should see a stronger presence of Moonfire in LI-favorable fights like Maidens, Hans & Franz, and maaaybe Flamebender. You'll also see a larger penalty for sticking with BT on fights that are very suited to LI (like Twin Ogrons). Overall, optimal usage of the talent should be a bit less finicky and not require the perfect scenario for it to be truly useful instead of just "oh yeah I could play LI here".
So, the total buff was 25% or 1.05*1.25-1=26%? Just a no-sense curiosity, I don't think it would be a noticeable difference :D
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Harleking » Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:24 am

So Moonfire ist the way to go on Iron Maiden?

Whats the Priority on 3 targets: Trash - Rake - Monnfire - Rip?

And on 2 Targets: Rake - Moonfire - Trash - Tip?

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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by inseedious » Sat Feb 28, 2015 7:33 am

Harleking wrote:So Moonfire ist the way to go on Iron Maiden?

Whats the Priority on 3 targets: Trash - Rake - Monnfire - Rip?

And on 2 Targets: Rake - Moonfire - Trash - Tip?
Rip has a greater DPE than Rake, so it has a higher priority than Rake/Moonfire, even though its uptime will be smaller because it requires 5 CP. I would also add that Thrash has indeed a slightly higher DPE than Rake when fighting 3 targets (about 10% more), but it lacks of CP building, so I guess Rake is a better choice if you have both Thrash and Rake down/expiring and you don't have 5 CP. So there's not a fix priority list, it's a lot situational. I can just say that approximately, when you have less than 5 CP it's Rake>Moonfire>Thrash, cause Thrash will already have a good uptime if you spend all your OoC procs on it. When you have 5 CP it's Rip>Thrash>Rake>Moonfire, and Thrash is a very good tool to quickly use your almost capped energy.
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aggixx
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by aggixx » Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:50 pm

inseedious wrote:So, the total buff was 25% or 1.05*1.25-1=26%? Just a no-sense curiosity, I don't think it would be a noticeable difference :D
26% from 6.0.3.
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Sibylle » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:04 am

Uff.

It might be just me, but I find LI to be rather annoying and hectic - because it's best for multi target fights, on which Thrash is a thing too, so all of a sudden I go from SR and 2 DoTs (bleeds) to SR and 4 DoTs, to manage across several targets. Does this feel exhausting and as if you're always behind trying to catch up, to anyone else? I'm not a fan, but the damage is significantly higher on fights like Maidens. So I guess I'll stick with it.
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Dwade » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:52 am

Sibylle wrote:Uff.

It might be just me, but I find LI to be rather annoying and hectic - because it's best for multi target fights, on which Thrash is a thing too, so all of a sudden I go from SR and 2 DoTs (bleeds) to SR and 4 DoTs, to manage across several targets. Does this feel exhausting and as if you're always behind trying to catch up, to anyone else? I'm not a fan, but the damage is significantly higher on fights like Maidens. So I guess I'll stick with it.
Well if you are like me and still without the 2 piece than yes I would agree it is pretty hard to maintain that dotline, I assume the 2 piece will make it much easier.
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Brutus » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:56 pm

Sibylle wrote:It might be just me, but I find LI to be rather annoying and hectic - because it's best for multi target fights, on which Thrash is a thing too, so all of a sudden I go from SR and 2 DoTs (bleeds) to SR and 4 DoTs, to manage across several targets. Does this feel exhausting and as if you're always behind trying to catch up, to anyone else? I'm not a fan, but the damage is significantly higher on fights like Maidens. So I guess I'll stick with it.
Working on Mythic Maidens atm and I feel your pain. I'm staying on the platform (for now) so get to go ham on the dot rolling but even with the 4P it feels like chaos. A good challenge though. :)

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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by aggixx » Tue Mar 03, 2015 3:52 pm

You get higher uptimes with the 2p than without but I would hardly call it "easier".
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Dwade
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Dwade » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:18 pm

it's not easier in the sense of trying to tab target around, getting the 2 piece will not help in that regard. I was mainly talking about the energy gains, without them it is more challenging.
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by aggixx » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:48 pm

I don't get how you could call it more challenging, you have less energy which means you also have less APM. Yes your uptimes are higher with the 2p but you're still changing targets, making decisions, etc at a faster rate.
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Itharius » Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:55 pm

Went back to highmaul and did 50k dps on Twin Ogron. Feels good man.

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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Sibylle » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:03 pm

Well I guess with more energy (2piece), I'll feel less like I'm always behind and catching up, with dots/bleeds falling off faster than I can refresh them. So in that sense it might be "easier", although I do see what aggixx says about it becoming even more hectic then.

I will add that I'm nowhere near the skill level of most of ye guys, so yeah, this one really is a challenge for me.
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Thandorr » Sat Mar 14, 2015 9:10 am

I might be in the minority, but I have a massive hard on for this on Maidens. The constant target switching makes this fight very fast paced and for a spec that has incredible downtime, it's refreshing for me. I usually have two rips up all the time, and the third rip the majority of the time. Most CPs are gained by rake/moonfire and I don't find myself having to pool 50 energy for thrash much of the time. I refresh with OOC or right after a TF and I'm able to pump out the damage beating out fire mages and arms warriors most of the time.

I wouldn't want LI 100% of the time, but for a couple fights a raid, I like it.

Still haven't tried it for Hans and Franz yet. I think I'm going to give it a whirl next lockout.

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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Nayni » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:07 am

Haven't found any place yet where LI is truely viable in Mythic BRF.

Hanz and Frans just already dies to fast for us to even make this talent shine so going BT and just bursting the fuck out of them is way more efficient.

Maidens I'm going up on either 2 or 3 boats so I end up with BT again to burst those down.

And with the whole raid getting more and more gear every week speed of boss kills will only go up which makes LI less and less viable to play imo.
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Re: Moonfire(feral) 20% dmg increase

Post by Latiika » Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:10 pm

Is it worth speccing into LI if your assigned to the boat?

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