Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

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Nayni
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Nayni » Thu May 14, 2015 4:02 pm

I've heard that the ring will actualy be not-obtainable during progress in Citadel, aka you'll need plenty of clears/full clear to actualy be able to complete the questline. So atleast for progress we should be in a fairly good place without beeing "punished" by the legendary ring.

Nevertheless though, I hate the fact we are still rolling with 3minute cooldowns at this point. It's becoming so much of a burden at this point.
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Stenhaldi
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Stenhaldi » Thu May 14, 2015 4:49 pm

On PTR, the T17 4pc only affects the first 15 seconds of berserk, so it doesn't synergize with the Seed of Creation.

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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by aggixx » Thu May 14, 2015 5:36 pm

inseedious wrote:Just a curious thing: since the only case when Shred doesn't refund energy is when you use it at 120 energy, I must assume that the 50% energy refund happens just before the energy is spent. Hitting a 120 energy, OoC FB, though, brings me at approximately 110 energy, actually showing that the refund (12.5 energy) happens right after the energy is spent.
Ooh, good catch with FB. I figured order doesn't matter but I guess it does in FB's case since the extra energy is taken first.
Stenhaldi wrote:On PTR, the T17 4pc only affects the first 15 seconds of berserk, so it doesn't synergize with the Seed of Creation.
Yeah, it works the same on live apparently, the 4pc just triggers a hidden buff that lasts for 15s.
Nayni wrote:I've heard that the ring will actualy be not-obtainable during progress in Citadel, aka you'll need plenty of clears/full clear to actualy be able to complete the questline. So atleast for progress we should be in a fairly good place without beeing "punished" by the legendary ring.
Most people will have the ring by the time they finish progression, its only the cutting edge guilds that won't have it.
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Felucia
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Felucia » Fri May 15, 2015 2:43 am

I am pretty sure our T18 is bugged on PTR.

I've noticed that i would never be energy starved(as in 0 energy) after a shred.
So i tested it out, using just shred, it is impossible to get to 0 energy. I assumed it was the 2p(+20 energy) that did it but it is the 4p.

I think if a shred would bring you below 80 energy its energy cost is adjusted, so it wouldnt do it. if you are already below 100 it will reduce it to a maximum of 20 energy.


TL:DR Shred has reduced energy cost if it brings you below 80 energy up until a maximum of 20 energy.

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aggixx
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by aggixx » Fri May 15, 2015 3:25 am

Yes that was mentioned on the previous page, shred always triggers the 4pc bonus regardless of Omen of Clarity being up.
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Grizzlebee » Fri May 15, 2015 5:39 pm

So, how are ferals looking so far in HFC?

I have checked out all the videos I could but I haven't been able to do any PTR raid testing other than playing around with the trinket and set bonuses.

How are ferals looking for the variety of fights in HFC?

Also, I am looking forward to the boost in AoE damage with soul capacitor and the almost minute long berserk.

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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Stenhaldi » Sat May 16, 2015 2:07 am

Notes on T18 trinkets:

Soul Capacitor seems to have an 11-second ICD, rather than 10. Probably to prevent it stacking with itself. So its mean proc interval should be about 54 seconds and its steady-state uptime 18.5%.

Malicious Censor has a 20-second duration and only a 10-second ICD. Its mean proc interval is about 53 seconds, but some of these procs are partially wasted by refreshing older procs, reducing its mean duration per proc to 17.93 seconds. So its steady-state uptime is 33.8%.

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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Ikkman » Sun May 17, 2015 3:31 pm

Hey guys, with 6.2 coming up I have started to think about BiS list. I know agix has already posted some sims with trinkets so thats great to have, but has anyone started looking what our off piece will be for tier? Also BiS list for single target and multi target. Thanks -ikk!

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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by aggixx » Sun May 17, 2015 7:37 pm

https://code.google.com/p/simulationcra ... 8M.simc#77

The pieces are the same for all difficulties until you start mixing in T17 gear (like if you were looking at T18N BiS obviously you'd use some T17M pieces if you had access to them).
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Mon May 18, 2015 5:57 pm

The PTR test periods are very poorly timed for me, so I haven't done much personally.. but I did just watch the Shadow-Lord Iskar videos posted and was "thrilled" to see the extremely long 6-7 target cleave sections in there. Ugh...

Would really kill for some AoE damage improvements about now.
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by aggixx » Mon May 18, 2015 7:20 pm

One of the targets is very high priority, its not really as bad for us as it looks.
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Mon May 18, 2015 7:39 pm

I did gather that, but given the HP of the other adds, it still feels very much like the status quo of, "yeah, technically, we're not terrible but still being carried by other classes who can AoE properly because we can't really contribute much."

Still not very happy with that state of things. Plenty of other classes can do solid single target damage.

Basically, "why not both?"
Last edited by Kojiyama on Mon May 18, 2015 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Tinderhoof » Mon May 18, 2015 7:41 pm

When I did the fight, killing the primary target (or targets when there were 2) caused the rest of the small adds to go away. May or may not be a thing at higher levels, but if it isn't very wasteful to do AoE.

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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Mon May 18, 2015 7:45 pm

That's interesting. I didn't see anyone mention that mechanic before. (Probably because the adds usually died before the primary targets in most of the streams/videos I saw.)

I do wonder what the point of them is unless they have some role on higher difficulties though?
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Mon May 18, 2015 7:59 pm

But, to clarify, I'm mostly frustrated by the fact that whenever I see certain types of mechanics, I internally go, "ugh..." rather than think, "wow, how do I tackle this fight?"

I feel like the class has become far too one-dimensional and the lack of being able to tackle different types of assignments and roles makes approaching and learning fights too simplistic and reliant on others. It is actually more of a fun-factor thing for me than a viability thing--although I do strongly believe that the disparity in AoE DPS across the raid is a huge balance and design failure compared to the rather solid single target balancing this expansion.
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by aggixx » Mon May 18, 2015 8:03 pm

Yeah, I know what you mean. It would bother me more if I hadn't already it accepted it as just being the way it is.
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Grizzlebee » Tue May 19, 2015 1:29 am

One thing that I am struggling with myself is why should I stay feral when boomkin is more valuable on most fights? They deal comparable single target damage with far more AoE capabilities. I love playing feral, but as Kojiyama mentioned, I am a bit fed up with the major discrepancies in AoE DPS. Most classes have on demand AoE which is easy to use and deals a good amount of damage. For boomkin you simply dot everything and press starfall. Other classes have one or two button wonders such as ravager+bladestorm, or barrage+multishot. With feral, our optimal AoE rotation is Thrash and tab rake which severely hurts our single target DPS. And if the adds are even more short lived, using thrash and swipe which is even more sub optimal because you most likely won't get the full effect of a thrash, which also consumes half of an energy bar.

I dislike hard casting which is why I prefer to play a melee, but with our raid comp as heavily melee as it is already, I can see myself being sat if the fights aren't melee or feral friendly. Which is unfortunate because I like playing feral far more than boomkin, even with all our spec flaws.

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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Tue May 19, 2015 2:47 pm

Pfft... pressing Starfall is so last tier... Balance just gets it passive now with the class trinket! ;)
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Synesis » Tue May 19, 2015 5:26 pm

Honestly for AoE don't discount swipe. I know from my experience in BRF most adds I find aren't worth tab raking but swiping (with a high chance of critting and getting 2 combo points) is actually more benificial to me. It's not the greatest AoE still but there are enough amazing AoE classes that it really is gravy. I know for a fact my main target dps or when ST burst is required you can bet your ass I am way ahead of everyone else.

Things I know I do extremely important target dps are fights like maiden ship adds, man of arms on thogar, Darmac himself, stone pillars on kromog etc.

Sure our AoE meh but our single target burst is so reliable that it makes certain mechanics really easy to deal with.

The only real fight where feral is a little on the meh side is Blast Furnace but even then we have our place. All other fights we are actually quite good to amazing for certain mechanics.

I wouldn't say much about any given fight for the next tier till I experience them on live. I find that sure our AoE is a little underwhelming but overall, unless its stupid heavy AoE fight I do find myself doing decent to exceptional dps numbers in comparison to everyone else

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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Stenhaldi » Wed May 20, 2015 12:46 am

Here's a fun thought: berserk, reset boss, pull on respawn for a free extra 20 seconds of berserk.

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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Wed May 20, 2015 1:17 am

Yeah, that certainly seems like an option with the trinket. Although I feel like if we started doing that regularly they would change something about how the resets work. This already gets semi-abused on Blast Furnace (for Incarnation, anyway) and I've always been surprised they never cracked down on it. Monks can already use Xuen this way on quite a few fights due to the longer duration.
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by inseedious » Wed May 20, 2015 6:50 am

With the latest build, they fixed both feral and capacitor. As regards the latter, I'm not 100% sure I understood how it works. I mean, the damage I deal during the proc is counted as an absorb, but it is taken into account by skada (potential distortion), like in fights like Ko'ragh. So, I don't know if the damage during the proc is effectively dealt, or if it's stored up. Both cases are strange: in the former, it may be overtuned since that trinket itself tops shred damage, dealing about 20-30% of total damage; in the latter, it may be weak damage wise, because, considering the normal version exploding for 119% of the stored damage, it would just be a 19% damage increase during the proc, which is worse than many other trinkets currently available.
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by aggixx » Wed May 20, 2015 7:55 am

The damage dealt during the proc is not effective damage, skada needs to be updated to account for that. The trinket isn't weak, I think you're overestimating how much the proc of a "normal" trinket actually gives you.
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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by Grizzlebee » Wed May 20, 2015 10:05 am

So I saw your post on the PTR forums Pawkets, what are the chances of them actually trying the suggestions you made?

I really liked your idea of halving the effect or even more and having it increase the duration of berserk and duration and effect of tiger's fury. Do you think the increased effect of tiger's fury would give mastery a much needed boost? I really would have liked to see a bleed focused set bonus because bleeds are one of the reasons I like playing feral.

I also like the idea of the trinket giving two charges of Berserk and Tiger's fury. It would give us some more raid flexibility so we can have a major cooldown for a couple burst or even an AoE phases.

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Re: Patch 6.2 PTR Discussion

Post by aggixx » Wed May 20, 2015 10:44 am

Fairly slim I imagine, but who knows. I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't think there was some chance of it going somewhere, even if it just motivates them to change it with or without my suggestions. The Berserk duration increase would likely still devalue mastery more than the TF effect would increase it but it would certainly be a much better balance than the current trinket.

Really the whole post was inspired by just trying to think what the trinket could be changed to that keeps it similar enough while making it really fun and interesting for me (which I don't feel the current design is).
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