Timewalking BiS?

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aggixx
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Timewalking BiS?

Post by aggixx » Fri May 15, 2015 7:34 pm

Original post:
Spoiler: show
Being the crazy person that I am, I was wondering about optimizing gear for timewalking in 6.2. The gear works in a similar to way in MoP CMs in that it scales your gear down to a certain item level (95 for BC dungeons, 160 for WotLK dungeons), but it also scales gems and enchants and does not disable set bonuses or other special effects like legendary items.

Not sure if wearing 4p Thunderheart (on top of the 4p T16) is worth losing 4 sockets & better stats.

Any thoughts?

This is what I've got so far:
Some notes:
  • Difficulty of gear does not matter as it all gets scaled down anyway.
  • Enchants are all listed on the the wowhead tooltips. Multistrike is very valuable since we can't get any anywhere else so we enchant rings/neck/cloak all with multistrike, that's very important.
  • Gemming: Listed on tooltips as well but it may vary depending on your exact gear setup. General strategy: 2 Crit is very close in value to 1 Agi, so you want to meet any useful socket bonuses. Stack as much crit as you can via gems, up to the soft crit cap (52% while in the dungeon, this is a bit tricky to get exact). You can't gem any multistrike because the WoD epic gems require item level 600, so use any excess gem budget to stack as much agi as possible.
  • Some Warlords of Draenor items can be competitive only if they have a socket. You'll have to check the wowhead entry for the item, and see what its stats are in each timewalking dungeon using the options below its tooltip.
WotLK

http://www.wowhead.com/item=99043&gems= ... 22&twwotlk
http://www.wowhead.com/item=32508&gems= ... 20&twwotlk
http://www.wowhead.com/item=99022&gems= ... 04&twwotlk
http://www.wowhead.com/item=102248&gems ... 13&twwotlk
http://www.wowhead.com/item=30101&gems= ... 19&twwotlk
http://www.wowhead.com/item=47155&gems= ... 16&twwotlk
http://www.wowhead.com/item=46043&gems= ... 59&twwotlk
http://www.wowhead.com/item=46095&gems= ... 94&twwotlk
http://www.wowhead.com/item=34188&gems= ... 22&twwotlk
http://www.wowhead.com/item=49895&gems= ... 28&twwotlk
http://www.wowhead.com/item=118307&ench=5327&twwotlk
http://www.wowhead.com/item=50402&gems= ... 27&twwotlk
http://www.wowhead.com/item=86879&gems= ... 27&twwotlk (with http://www.wowhead.com/spell=95471/mighty-agility, enchant doesn't always show in tooltip)

1st trinket:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=124224&twwotlk

2nd trinket:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=77530&gems: ... 80&twwotlk
http://www.wowhead.com/item=44253&twwotlk for non-engineers
http://www.wowhead.com/item=47464&twwotlk or a very slightly worse alternative if you don't want to craft a greatness

BC

Replace the ones from the WotLK list with these items:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=25687&twtbc
http://www.wowhead.com/item=25686&twtbc

Cataclysm

Replace the ones from the WotLK list with these items:

http://www.wowhead.com/item=49899&gems: ... 125&twcata
http://www.wowhead.com/item=45456&gems:40125&twcata
http://www.wowhead.com/item=124226&twcata (if you're not an engineer)

For SimC (use option timewalk=80):
Spoiler: show
head=headpiece_of_the_shattered_vale,id=99328,gem_id=95346/32222
neck=necklace_of_the_deep,id=32508,gem_id=32222/32222,enchant_id=5320
shoulders=spaulders_of_the_shattered_vale,id=99322,gem_id=32222/32222,enchant_id=4804
back=fenyu_fury_of_xuen,id=102248,gem_id=32222,enchant_id=5313
chest=bloodsea_brigands_vest,id=30101,gem_id=32205/32205/40125,enchant_id=4419
wrists=armbands_of_dark_determination,id=47474,gem_id=40125/32222,enchant_id=4416
hands=gloves_of_the_endless_dark,id=46043,gem_id=32194/32205,enchant_id=5259
waist=souldevouring_cinch,id=46095,gem_id=32194/32194/32194
legs=leggings_of_the_immortal_night,id=34188,gem_id=32222/32222/32222,enchant_id=4822
feet=footpads_of_impending_death,id=49895,gem_id=32194/40125,enchant_id=4428
finger1=spellbound_runic_band_of_unrelenting_slaughter,id=118307,enchant_id=5327
finger2=ashen_band_of_endless_vengeance,id=50402,gem_id=32205,enchant_id=5327
trinket1=ghost_iron_dragonling,id=77530,gem_id=59478/59493/59480
trinket2=mirror_of_the_blademaster,id=124224
main_hand=gaorei_staff_of_the_legendary_protector,id=86321,gem_id=89873/32222,enchant_id=4227
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by aggixx » Sat May 16, 2015 8:10 am

A brief follow-up, I spent an inordinate amount of time messing around with Timewalking and its item scaling in SimC and what I learned can be summarized as: get as many sockets as possible, use the lowest item level piece with good stat budgeting. Generally very well itemized max socket TBC pieces are ideal and the stat advantage they have over a MoP or WoD piece is large enough that the lack of set bonus doesn't really matter.

This is what I've got for best set now. Bloodfall sims a tad better than Kiril but I'd rather have the swag factor than the 14 DPS.
edit: just check the list in the OP.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by Sibylle » Sat May 16, 2015 11:34 am

Never thought we'd go after this gear again, except for transmog purposes :D
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by Nayni » Sat May 16, 2015 12:46 pm

I guess sockets will always come out ahead because TBC gear had so many sockets and even with loads of red slots for even more bonus from fitting the gems.

What I tried on PTR (since items are supposed to scale up) was to wear T17 with T6 since that should synergize pretty well, sadly T6 doesn't actually scale up during testing. Maybe it'll work for timewalking, but it's probably not worth all the sockets you'll miss.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by Dropzone » Sat May 16, 2015 4:53 pm

I finally have a reason to use all the gear I have in my void storage yay!!!! Now to farm gems and more gear from old content.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by aggixx » Sat May 16, 2015 8:50 pm

Forgot about Sha-Touched gems, Gaorei is actually the best weapon if you have access to one.

But yeah if anyone has any ideas for trinkets, set bonus setups, special weapons etcs feel free to post them and I'll try em out if I can. That's the main reason I've made this thread; its extremely difficult to sort through & try everything.
Nayni wrote:What I tried on PTR (since items are supposed to scale up) was to wear T17 with T6 since that should synergize pretty well, sadly T6 doesn't actually scale up during testing. Maybe it'll work for timewalking, but it's probably not worth all the sockets you'll miss.
Yeah for Raid Testing only MoP and higher items get scaled up, I think. I'll try this out though, didn't realize I haven't actually done this yet, will update with results.

Edit: 4pT6 is a bit better, best pieces as far as I can tell are Shoulders/Head/Wrists/Feet. I also tried adding 2pT8 on top of that but it seems like it costs too much stats to be worth it.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by Kojiyama » Sun May 17, 2015 12:51 am

I guess for trinkets you might want to look for things that are effectively overbudget. A good recent example (although likely not the best option) would maybe be the 615 garrison trinkets with the overbudget procs on them.

How do things like weapon enchants work with Timewalking exactly?
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by aggixx » Sun May 17, 2015 1:33 am

I assume you mean proc enchants? They get scaled down in a manner very similar to how a trinket's effect gets scaled down, but they're scaled based on the character's level instead of item level. As far as I know Mighty Agility is the best enchant at a passive +54 agi (Dancing Steel is like 80 for comparison) but I haven't sim'd it specifically yet.

I'll try out the Munificent trinket and Pajeet's.
Edit: Neither are as good as DMC or Bottle. I also I tried out Vial of Shadows and surprisingly its really awful, hits for a few hundred every 10s which ends up being like 0.5% DPS :P
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by Xanzara » Sun May 17, 2015 6:57 am

There was a proc ring in ICC, is that worth using as the second ring?

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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by aggixx » Sun May 17, 2015 7:06 am

Yeah it is. First I thought it would be good, then I realized all the stats get scaled to almost nothing (like 2 agi and 3 of each secondary) and thought it was shit, and then I realized the proc doesn't scale at all... so yeah its really damn good, you get about triple the AP that you should get. Updated the first post with the gear I'm using right now.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by Dropzone » Sun May 17, 2015 10:03 pm

what about heroic DBW from ICC how would that fit in I am still guessing that darkmoon card is still better considering it was BIS for ferals all thru wrath.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by aggixx » Sun May 17, 2015 10:14 pm

I'd have to implement the trinket in SimC to try it. I don't have one on live so maybe someone can confirm what buffs feral can get? According to Wowhead its Str, Agi, and Haste but I wonder if that's changed.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by Dropzone » Mon May 18, 2015 2:17 am

I just tested heroic DBW and ferals get at 121 agility, strength and haste
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by aggixx » Mon May 18, 2015 6:16 am

Unfortunately its pretty bad, the str proc hurts it pretty significantly but even if it didn't it probably wouldn't beat Greatness. DBW gives about 40% of the DPS of Greatness.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by Dropzone » Mon May 18, 2015 12:54 pm

yeah I figured with the str proc not being what it was in wrath wasn't good for us. greatness was such a great trinket man.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by aggixx » Wed May 20, 2015 6:49 am

New developments, today I (re)learned that your helm has to be item level 502 or higher to put a legendary meta gem in it... so that threw a big wrench in my plans. Since the T16 tier helm is pretty much the best item to do that with, I figured why not try out a set bonus combo that I had thought of a couple days ago: 2pT16 / 2pT18. Swipe is actually pretty good in timewalking dungeons so the T16 2p is pretty strong and versatile, and the T18 2p amps it up a bit while giving you some more energy to dump. I had some concerns that the lack of sockets on the 2 T18 pieces would prevent it from being worth it, but surprisingly its not, this actually sims higher then my old setup and has better AoE to boot.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by Zstriker » Wed May 20, 2015 1:34 pm

thats awesome list, really big thx

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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by Ayleena » Wed May 20, 2015 4:20 pm

Wow, who knew all that gear would come back into play? I guess the big question is, is it worth it? Are the numbers great enough with tweaking old gear compared to what you're already wearing?

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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by aggixx » Wed May 20, 2015 9:39 pm

That would probably depend on the final tuning of the dungeons and the competency of the people you're running it with; if you're blowing through it regardless then maybe not. But I can tell you the gear list I have in the first post does close to double the DPS as the T18M profile when they're both scaled down, its very significant. Having all those extra gems, enchants, the right consumables, and a couple particularly strong items really increases your character power a huge amount.

One thing I haven't really accounted for in regards to gear selection is socket bonuses. Its possible that they don't get scaled down at all which could make the right pieces with really big socket bonuses pretty good. Unfortunately the timewalking event isn't active on PTR right now so I can't test and find out.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by Dropzone » Thu May 21, 2015 4:15 am

Well @ lvl 100 the socket bonuses are only say 3-8 agility or whichever stat you get so scaling it down wouldnt make sense to me but I am not blizzard.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by aggixx » Thu May 21, 2015 9:03 pm

I was able to test it yesterday since they started up another event, the socket bonuses do scale down but not by a huge amount. 11 agi bonuses from MoP scale down to 9 but that's about as harsh as it gets.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by Dropzone » Fri May 22, 2015 9:15 pm

battle thats an interesting idea about the t6 bracers and boots but I think the bracers and boots offered have better socket and socket bonuses.

plus the more sockets the better
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by aggixx » Fri May 22, 2015 9:53 pm

Didn't know that amulet existed, will have to try it. It seems that its proc doesn't scale either similar to the ICC ring (not that this matters for WotLK dungeons, but it does for BC ones).

Was using Thunderheart 4pc for a while but not convinced its worth it. I spent some time last night more exhaustively looking through items for overbudget pieces and I found a handful of better items which of course devalue set bonuses a fair bit. Ended up dropping 2T18, only kept 2T16 since you're stuck using the helm anyway for the meta gem so it really only costs you 1 slot.

Edit: Shattered Sun Pendant is worse than http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=32508&gems= ... &ench=5320.

Here's the numbers on Thunderheart 2p and 4p, swapping to the pieces with the lowest opportunity cost:
0p: 11352 DPS
2p: 11448 DPS
4p: 11683 DPS

So as you can see the increase is pretty slim, and since this is a patchwerk sim I'm not convinced this would actually translate into more damage over the course of an actual dungeon. You'd be using a fair bit of Swipe as well as a sizeable chunk of your AoE being from the cloak proc both of which scale from more stats but not from the set bonuses. Feel free to use as you see fit, though.

I updated the OP with the pieces I'm using now.
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Re: Timewalking BiS?

Post by xfr » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:47 pm

Hi, can you possibly make an alternate list for characters that have not completed the legendary quest line for MoP? Obviously, it would use a different back piece but also, I wonder if it makes sense to keep the T16p2 without the legendary gem.

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