6.2 Feral Sims?

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Grizzlebee
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Grizzlebee » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:13 pm

And check out Unholy's trinket. The mythic version has a 100% chance to double tick and deal AoE damage according to WoWhead.

http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=124513/reap ... &bonus=567

Itharius
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Itharius » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:51 pm

Stenhaldi wrote:
Kojiyama wrote:I also question when DKs have similar or better single target than Ferals for the same reason.
Yep, Death Knight does substantially more single target damage than Feral, while having much stronger and equally cheap AoE and the ability to instantly shift their damage to a new target.

They outclass every other melee by a mile though, not just feral.
Frost DKs do slightly more single target than feral in BiS mythic. Ferals beat frost dks on single target in heroic BiS according to all the sims I've seen.

Also, apparently the unholy archimonde trinket is really poor for single target, it's only decent for AoE.

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aggixx
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by aggixx » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:42 pm

Itharius wrote:Also, apparently the unholy archimonde trinket is really poor for single target, it's only decent for AoE.
Doesn't matter, that's the only thing you would play unholy for anyway; the trinket only plays on their strengths. And calling it decent is a pretty hefty understatement.
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Stenhaldi
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Stenhaldi » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:07 pm

Itharius wrote:
Stenhaldi wrote:Yep, Death Knight does substantially more single target damage than Feral, while having much stronger and equally cheap AoE and the ability to instantly shift their damage to a new target.

They outclass every other melee by a mile though, not just feral.
Frost DKs do slightly more single target than feral in BiS mythic. Ferals beat frost dks on single target in heroic BiS according to all the sims I've seen.
Haven't seen any sims, I'm just speaking from experience.

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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Millerr » Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:17 am

Frost DKs do slightly more single target than feral in BiS mythic. Ferals beat frost dks on single target in heroic BiS according to all the sims I've seen.
Those sims were probably before the buff to DW frost which is currently the highest single target frost spec.

I did a quick sim of DW frost vs feral in HFC heroic gear and DW is has a significant lead at 79654 vs feral's 70309. Both sims were done on the latest 620-01 release with the default heroic gear setup.

Even in current tier when the patch hits DW will be ahead - T17M profiles DW = 56732, Feral = 54238.

And just for fun - T18M DW = 100722, Feral = 90096.

The absurd thing about frost is that they don't have to swap their playstyle very much to switch from single target to cleave/aoe so they essentially do full single target damage WHILE aoe-ing

TL;DR they're better than us at pretty much everything :(

Itharius
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Itharius » Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:13 am

Do you happen to have an easily digestible chart that I can shamelessly steal?

Also, there HAS to be a balancing pass soon. I refuse to believe that Blizzard is THAT inept.

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Tinderhoof
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Tinderhoof » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:36 pm

Patch hits in 5 days. Only bug fixes are going in at this point. No more balance changes before this hits.

Nayni
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Nayni » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:06 pm

Fairly sure some balancing changes will come trough after the first week of Heroic and probably more during Mythic progress.

They don't really hold back anymore nowadays to nerf mid progression.
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by aggixx » Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:27 pm

Yep, things are balanced enough to go live, the rest will be cleaned up with hotfixes when they get data indicating something needs to be changed.
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Mooninites
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Mooninites » Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:49 pm

Latest sims posted


mythic:

Spoiler: show
Image

Heroic:
Spoiler: show
Image


not sure if these are up to date for the latest T18 nerfs

Tremnen
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Tremnen » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:23 pm

where did you get this info from?

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Valery
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Valery » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:43 pm

Those are outdated.

teddabear
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by teddabear » Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:40 am

The changes Bliz posted Friday won't do much to address the discrepancies on those sims. If the sims are correct it's going to be a pretty bad tier.

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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Nayni » Sun Jun 21, 2015 5:51 am

teddabear wrote:The changes Bliz posted Friday won't do much to address the discrepancies on those sims. If the sims are correct it's going to be a pretty bad tier.

The only true outlier is DK. Both Ret and Warrior will drop down as soon as the Strength trinket gets nerfed. Feral honestly is in a pretty ok spot compared to Highmaul and BRF progression atm.

But then again, this expansion has been pretty horrible and fragile when it comes to balancing. It's feels like I've been playing beta for all of live so anything can happen at this point.
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teddabear
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by teddabear » Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:26 pm

I should have clarified I wasn't referring to just Feral. There is over a 30k spread right now and it looks like it will be at least 20k at the start of 6.2.

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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Kojiyama » Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:18 pm

It's worth noting that with the most recent build of SimC and the nerfs to the T18 2pc, there is no specific reason to upgrade to T18 other than ilevel, as the loss from the 17 4pc and the gain from the T18 2pc are pretty much a wash.

Not really a big deal, since I'm going to assume the same applies to a lot of other classes after the hotfix, but basically means there is no real rush to swap out for the 2pc unless you are getting improvements in itemization.

(This actually appears to be pretty much opposite for Balance, where running 2pc/2pc is a huge upgrade and then going 4pc T18 doesn't actually have much real benefit other than itemization advantages.)
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Grizzlebee » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:05 pm

@Kojiyama- So are you saying, 2p T17 (700 ilvl)+2p T18 (710 ilvl)= 4p T17 (700 ilvl)?

Or should we wait for a complete Heroic T18 4p?

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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Kojiyama » Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:46 pm

I was not changing specific pieces or looking at the ilevel bump at all--just the vacuum of the set bonuses themselves using the ilevel 700 T17M profiles as a base. The actual value will depend on the stats on the gear and if you already have warforged/socketed stuff, so I was purely looking at what type of low-end we are looking at.

I also assume people may run normal to try to get set bonuses sooner if they don't have a lot of luck in Heroic, so this is worth considering as well.

Just an interesting observation, really. I always sim individual piece upgrades as they stream in anyway, but it's worth knowing this going in to frame expectations. (Basically that we are in no massive rush to get the 2pc bonus unless there are statistical advantages on the itemization to support doing so.)

Could definitely be worth using normal pieces if you needed to complete the 4pc though, since it seems to be worth about 3k DPS in sim-land with my current gear.

Balance gains very significantly from going 2pc/2pc (2nd best of any spec from what I can see,) so they probably could take a much more aggressive approach to try to get their 2pc as soon as possible, then chill out waiting for good itemization to get their 4pc completed.
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teddabear
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by teddabear » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:14 pm

Is there confirmation those sims are correct? They seem a little hard to believe to me. Certainly the OoC nerf makes no sense if they are correct.

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Stenhaldi
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Stenhaldi » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:08 pm

2p/2p isn't an upgrade, but 4p T18 is.

Millerr
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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Millerr » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:47 pm

Mooninites wrote: mythic:
Spoiler: show
Image
not sure if these are up to date for the latest T18 nerfs
AFAIK not all those sims in that chart are up to date. The affliction one should be in the 75k range after the heavy nerf and I believe arcane and 2h frost dk should be lower. The feral sim however looks about right and its placement relative to other specs in the list is correct for the most part.

Keep in mind some specs like ret and fury are riding off of borderline broken interactions between their class abilities and things like http://ptr.wowhead.com/item=124238/empt ... &bonus=567, and in all likelihood this will get changed and impact their performance.

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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Ogreson » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:36 am

Image

This looks to be the most recent sims I could find which are after the last round of T18 set nerfs. The discrepancy between top and bottom is rather ridiculous as it stands. Hopefully they do something about that before too long after launch of 6.2.

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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Tinderhoof » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:34 am

The Empty Drinking Horn (the trinket that was giving Strength classes all that beef) was nerfed today by 50%. There will be some big adjustments to that list bringing everyone but Arcane Mages back down to earth.

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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by Dinodount » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 am

Tinderhoof wrote:The Empty Drinking Horn (the trinket that was giving Strength classes all that beef) was nerfed today by 50%. There will be some big adjustments to that list bringing everyone but Arcane Mages back down to earth.
Do you have a source for this?

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Re: 6.2 Feral Sims?

Post by aggixx » Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:42 am

PTR testing.
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