How would you rework Feral Druids?

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How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Minibubble » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:56 am

Hello fellow Feral enthusiasts,

i wanted to chat with you about ideas of a Feral rework, just for fun. I am certain that some of you have great ideas about gameplay. Here are my ideas:

I get the idea of a Feral Druid tracking bleeds. There are 2 major skills that i would alter: Ferocious Bite and Savage Roar. First let me point to the nature of druids. The key element is shapeshifting, but with balance and ability pruning we don't shift much (maybe in PvP). Imo that takes away a big part of the druid immersion. So i would replace both skills with skills that would transform us into another feral animal, for a an average time, which would alter our skillset.
First we would increase the Initial damage and DoT damage and would stay in basic feral form for short duration fights.
In long duration fights we would start with Rake and finish with Rip. Then with the next row of 5 CP we would use our finisher to transform into our new feral form (ff1), which is an alteration of SR. In ff1 we would lose our ability to redot and lose the initial damage of our DoT's, but ff1 would multiply our mastery and we could refesh our already applied dots and could snapshot these with higher ticks. With the next row of 5 CP we would use our next feral form (ff2), which is an alteration of FB, and is on a short duration. In this we lose again the ability to redot or dot at all, but our inital damage would be higher and ff2 would give us multiplied crit or haste, and every damagespell of the same category (rake on rake dot) would increase the duration of that dot for 2sec. for a maxium of 6 seconds. With higher Haste we would spam damage or with crit we would do a lot of direct damge for a short duration. After we lose ff2 we would start in basic feral form again.
On fights where one enemy goes away a alot and comes often back, we would go directy ff2 and deal damage and on encounters with longer absence we would go more often in ff1.
I think it would suit ferals. First putting bleeds, then deepen the bleeds (ff1), and then finishing off the prey. What do you think?
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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Itharius » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:37 am

One idea I've had since they separated feral into feral cat and guardian specs is to make feral bear form the AoE form, and to give bear form more interesting abilities that make our AoE playstyle more than just thrash+swipe spam. While cat form can remain the single target damage form (in fact, remove thrash and swipe for good measure), bear form can receive an array of new AoE and cleave abilities that make it the go-to form for multitarget scenarios. This would promote a lot of form shifting, and it could be designed to where we're constantly shifting in and out of our two forms to weave attacks and take advantage of both our energy and rage resources.

So maybe those forms can be the FF1 and FF2 forms you described.

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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Grizzlebee » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:49 am

I really do like how feral is in it's current iteration barring a couple things.

1. Our Aoe sucks and is annoying. I still don't think we need an AoE finisher but a rework of Thrash and a buff to swipe. I mentioned the same kind of rework going into 6.1, buff swipe damage so it's used on 3+ targets (outside incarnation). Have thrash refund 50% energy when used on 3+ targets. This fixes our lack of burst AoE.

2. Savage Roar is boring and it gives incarnation so much value (with the glyph) that pretty any other talent is unusable. But I honestly don't know what to replace it with because if it's simply done away with, it leaves us with one less button to press. That and I don't think there's a way to give it utility in a situation that either Ferocious bite and Rip couldn't fill. So I guess in a way it's kind of a necessary evil, just like slice and dice is for rogues. Even so, Savage Roar is boring.

3. I'd like to see our stat weights leaning more towards Mastery>Crit rather than Crit>Mastery. This and I feel too much of our damage is coming from direct damage and I'd like to see more come from bleeds, but this is a personal preference. I think the class Atunement should have been mastery and not crit.

4. I think the lvl100 talents need a huge rework. I think that they have so much potential, yet they take out a passive (Old DoC) and add it as a talent (Bloodtalons). Other classes have very cool lvl100 talents but we got the crappy ones. I think that the lvl100 talents should focus on giving your druid new forms, Astral Form, Druid of the Flame, and Claws of Shirvallah, each with an interesting twist.
  • Lunar Inspiration- This is another DoT which is just simply out shone by Bloodtalons. I think that Lunar Inspiration will be more interesting if it turned your cat into an Astral Form which adds a good portion of your damage as magic (Arcane and Nature). On top of giving Feral a Moonfire DoT, Lunar inspiration should also give you a charge of Wrath when ever you cast Healing Touch, which scales off your AP, is instant, off GCD, and stacks to 2 that lasts 30 seconds.
  • Bloodtalons RENAMED Druid of the Flame- The current iteration is just Dream of Cenarius which was taken out and added as a lvl100 talent. Seriously?? Give it something that makes it unique. Rename it Druid of the Flame which changes your cat form into the current Fire Kitty model where auto attacks now deal Fire damage and after using Healing Touch, your next 2 abilities now deal 30% of the damage as Fire. The Healing Touch part will work exactly as the current Bloodtalons, except as fire damage. The added benefits are that some of Ferocious Bite, Shred, and all auto attacks now ignore armor.
  • Claws of Shirvallah- I actually like this talent believe it or not. I just don't like that it is really only a PvP talent. I think this can be fixed by giving it another stat increase such as 5% crit or mastery.
I think that Blizzards philosophy with lvl100 talents should have been giving feral druids new forms and playstyles to play around with. And if someone doesn't like the new models they shift into, simply add a minor glyph which reverts them back into the base Cat from model.

This all really is my personal wishlist, but this is what I'd do if I were reworking Ferals.

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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Dwade » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:23 pm

I don't think Ferals need a massive overhaul, I enjoy our current play style, but there are some things that could be improved for sure. I just don't see the need to add massive changes like various forms and new astral spells or anything like that.

As far as aoe goes, they will never really be willing to buff swipe that much because of how crazy it could get when used with berserk (that is just the feeling I get from blizz, not my own opinion...they even stated that berserk was one of the most powerful dps cds in the game in MoP) Ferals are a spec that will probably never truly excel at burst aoe, which is ok because burst aoe is covered by many other specs in any given raid. Burst aoe really doesn't matter anyways as very few fights will your raid leader say 'Gee we are not doing enough aoe' instead it's almost always 'Stop being aoe whores to pad the meters'

Sustained aoe/cleave is a different topic which I think Feral, as a dot class, should do very well at. To help with that I would increase the range of thrash and swipe to 10 yards and make them interact with each other more than they do now. Thrash damage is fine, the problem with it is the high energy cost and no combo points. What I would do is to lower the energy cost of swipe to 40 and have it extend the duration of thrash by several seconds, similar to how shred extended rip before 6.0... Another thought is to lower the cost to use rake when a target is affected by thrash.

Another pretty big weakness for us is low health/high priority adds. I have brought this idea up here before, but I think maim is a good spell to rework to help us with this. Basically I would add a glyph that would remove the stun from maim while removing its status as a finishing move and instead have it accelerate the damage of your dots on a target. This still forces you to use thrash or rake though. Most of our abilities deal extra damage when the target is bleeding, maybe making maim into an ability that does more damage to targets that aren't bleeding is a better option.

That is what I would do, but I like to see other people's ideas too. Some of them make a lot of sense, good topic for discussion.
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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Polihayse » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:28 pm

I believe that feral was overpowered in MoP. We had the best single target damage in SoO because of RoRo, we had competitive aoe damage, we had the most utility of any spec with tranquility and symbiosis, we had high survivability, and high mobility. With the release of WoD, we lost symbiosis(utility that was unique to our spec) and tranquility while all other classes gained utility. We went from the highest utility to the least utility. We still have high survivability and mobility, but other classes also gained a lot of mobility. Our aoe is worse than PvP specs and our single target is still up there, but not as high as it was. IMO feral got hit too hard with these changes not only because of what we lost, but also because of what other classes gained. The talent options are almost non-existent and I believe that adding additional viable options is key to fixing the spec's design and its shortcomings.

I think feral is in a good spot for damage distribution among its abilities. I would like to have a larger focus on bleed damage as an option. This can be done by changing some of our talents that are not used in the 4th tier. These are my thoughts on what the 4th tier should be like:

Force of Nature: This talent should be completely reworked. It currently is only potentially viable in PvP, but a feral druid that takes this over Incarnation in PvP is insane. It might work better for other specs, but it isn't hard to make spec-specific talents. My idea is for this talent to give a large boost to our bleed damage, making it a larger percentage of our damage dealt. It would work similar to death knight's blood tap. Every time you generate a combo point, you gain 1 stack of Force of Nature. Crits grant 2 stacks of force of nature. Consume 5 stacks to make your next bleed ability deal % increased damage. Maximum of 12 stacks. Blizzard made it clear that they do not like snapshotting. I would not consider this snapshotting since it is not random and you can control it, but it does add an element of complexity to the "snapshotting" that we already have. This talent would be our best choice for maximum single target damage. It would not be the best talent for burst damage, although, you do have the ability to pool Force of Nature stacks to get a little extra burst damage in where you need it at the cost of your overall single target damage.

Incarnation: This is a powerful cooldown that is used alongside berserk when burst damage is necessary in PvE. It is the best option for PvP, and when burst damage is necessary. The change to the Force of Nature talent creates a second option for PvE. This second option means that Incarnation can be adjusted according to the PvP environment without it having catastrophic effects on PvE. This talent is not for overall damage. It is for the on-demand burst damage that it gives.

Soul of the Forest: Increase energy regen by % in addition to its current effect. This would work well with a talent like Bloody Thrash on fights where you have 3-5 target cleave. It could also work well with turning berserk into a type of aoe cooldown since energy regen would be so quick that you would cap on energy with berserk if you weren't spending large amounts of energy through thrash and swipe.


These are my thoughts for 6th tier talents:

Bloodtalons: I like the idea of weaving Healing Touch into the rotation, but this talent has been recycled already and people might get irritated if it appears again. It can't simply be built into the spec because it would make things a little too complex. The choices are to either build it into the spec and make it do a much smaller increase in damage than it does currently(for example, Healing Touch now reduces the cooldown of your Tiger's Fury by 2 seconds), or add some kind of twist to the talent. Maybe make it do something special depending on what ability the Bloodtalons charge is used on in addition to increasing its damage dealt by 30%. Something like this:

Rip: Deals 15% additional damage.
Ferocious Bite: Costs no energy and does full damage.
Rake: Rake an additional target next to you(no extra combo point).
Shred: Guaranteed crit.
Thrash: Thrash generates 1 combo point when used.
Swipe: Costs half energy (I also think swipe should do a little more damage passively.).

Bloody Thrash: Same as what it was in concept during WoD. Thrash applies rake. Maybe the rake could deal reduced damage. This isn't intended to give feral druid another niche. This talent should just give us a chance. Maybe not lose in aoe dps to a mage 30 item levels below us.

Claws of Shirvallah: PvP talent that works fine. The only thing I would change is the hideous model.


These are the talents I might choose for boss fights in Blackrock Foundry:

Oregorger: Force of Nature/Bloodtalons
Hans'gar and Franzok: Force of Nature/Bloodtalons
Beastlord Darmac: Force of Nature/Bloody Thrash
Gruul: Force of Nature/Bloodtalons
Flamebender Ka'graz: Force of Nature/Bloody Thrash
Operator Thogar: Soul of the Forest/Bloody Thrash
The Blast Furnace: Incarnation/Bloody Thrash
Kromog: Incarnation/Bloody Thrash
The Iron Maidens: Soul of the Forest/Bloody Thrash
Blackhand: Incarnation/Bloodtalons

Some of these changes might be too complex at a glance, but I think it would be doable. I feel like there is something for everyone in this design. There is a slow and strategic playstyle as well as a spammy "fast-paced" playstyle. Also, if they decide that they do not want to put that much work into feral, it would be cool to at least get a new cat model.
Last edited by Polihayse on Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Stenhaldi » Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:15 pm

Nothing major, but:

Glyph of Savage Roar: trigger when you rake or shred a target above 80% health, instead of its current effect. Removes synergy with incarnation and reliance on stealth and acts as a minor boon for target switching.

Incarnation: also boost swipe damage by 35%. Just so it doesn't feel as bad have incarnation up when you need to AoE.

Soul of the Forest: rip/rake/thrash ticks grant 2-3 energy, instead of its current effect. Gives the talent a clear purpose: aids with AoE damage and allows the potential to gain single target damage when there are other targets, but at the cost of one of the spec's other great strengths (its burst damage).

Force of Nature: I don't know, but either give them a role (e.g. cast thrash instead of rake) or make them rotationally interesting (some interaction with your resource system or spells).

Lunar Inspiration: I like it in principle, but it may be too niche. Tune moonfire higher, or make it last longer (note how caster form moonfire is 20 seconds).

Haste has 30% more effect. Makes the stat not awful, but still not a competitor for best stat (as bleeds scaling with haste would do). Also, the stat still has a clear role in that it boosts direct damage only.

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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by metaa » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:51 pm

Few things I would change
Ferocious bite base damage lowered, always crits, critical strike rating increases damage of ferocious bite.
Shred from stealth just does more damage not increased crit chance.
Swipe no longer generates combo points now it's an aoe finisher. Deals alot more damage accordingly
Incarnation does not activate gosr, I like the idea sten had above with it activating on high health targets.
Remove treants instead put in shred hit's 3 targets now deals half damage to other targets, generates extra cp only if the main target gets crit,
Increase the energy regen from haste and increase the proc rate of ooc, glyph of energy increases maximum energy by 20 in order to make haste a real thing
Fb, swipe, and shred now deal bleed damage so that they scale with mastery.
All of these changes would obviously involve us getting a number nerf on almost everything but I think it would make the spec more fluid and help with scaling.

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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Rayen » Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:54 pm

Grizzlebee wrote: [*] Bloodtalons RENAMED Druid of the Flame- The current iteration is just Dream of Cenarius which was taken out and added as a lvl100 talent. Seriously?? Give it something that makes it unique. Rename it Druid of the Flame which changes your cat form into the current Fire Kitty model where auto attacks now deal Fire damage and after using Healing Touch, your next 2 abilities now deal 30% of the damage as Fire. The Healing Touch part will work exactly as the current Bloodtalons, except as fire damage. The added benefits are that some of Ferocious Bite, Shred, and all auto attacks now ignore armor.
Given we have Fandral's seed pouch and can be "Fire" kitties 100% I don't think this cosmetic change is a good idea. We need something -other- that fire cat otherwise you can't tell the difference.
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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Grizzlebee » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:53 am

Rayen wrote:
Grizzlebee wrote: [*] Bloodtalons RENAMED Druid of the Flame- The current iteration is just Dream of Cenarius which was taken out and added as a lvl100 talent. Seriously?? Give it something that makes it unique. Rename it Druid of the Flame which changes your cat form into the current Fire Kitty model where auto attacks now deal Fire damage and after using Healing Touch, your next 2 abilities now deal 30% of the damage as Fire. The Healing Touch part will work exactly as the current Bloodtalons, except as fire damage. The added benefits are that some of Ferocious Bite, Shred, and all auto attacks now ignore armor.
Given we have Fandral's seed pouch and can be "Fire" kitties 100% I don't think this cosmetic change is a good idea. We need something -other- that fire cat otherwise you can't tell the difference.
I know it would only be a cosmetic change, but I think the lvl 100 talents should have focused on different types of shapeshifting within cat form. Also, making auto attacks Fire damage increases our DPS a little because it ignores armor. Plus it sounds awesome to me. It's more of a "wish-list"/"my imagination running wild" idea.

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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Vularo » Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:04 am

Druid overall changes:

Remove of Bearform for Restoration, Feral, Moonkin-druid.
Remove Cyclone for Restoration, Feral-druid. Guardian
Remove Rejuvenation for Feral-Druid

Talent Changes:

Mighty Bash: has now 20m range for Feral (compensate of losing cyclone)
Disorienting Roar: Doesnt break form dots anymore, only direct hits will break the effekt.
Mass Entangelement (Feral version): No longer roots the target; instead it will suround the target with wild plants and roots, to prevent heal
and ranged attacks. (like smokebomb, but other animation)
Incarnation: Duration reduced to 15seconds, Cooldown also halfed to 1min30second.



Feral Changes:
In catform armor is increased by 180% (compensate of losing bearform).
Survival instinkts (Feral version): Usable during stuns
Berserk: CD Reduced to 1min30second
Savage roar: no longer increase all dmg done by 40% (this should now be baseline), instead: it increase the dmg of all bleeds by 20%, and it ticks twice as fast, for 8sec.
1min 30second cooldown


Trash (Feral version):No longer apply a bleed effekt, now it spreads your rake und rip from your current target to all target
that trash hits. 8m range 20-30seconds cooldown

Swipe (Feral version):removed



Impacts PVE/PVP:

Restoration druids are no longer "tanky", the are still the mobilest healspec, with almost no heals the needed to be casted.
Feral: able to survive a single stun with these changes.with losing bearform and slightly increased armor still not "oneshot" against other meeles.


long cooldowns arent fun. and in rated pvp /arena, everyone has their cooldown /trinket rdy long bevor we have our dmg rdy. our burst is too high, our bleeds are too week.we need more bleed dmg, less schredd, and bite reduced by 15-20%. (maybe FB count as bleed dmg /scale with mastery)

big problems in pvp are that we have no pressure on high armor targets, because our bleeds are so weak. in the past, this wasnt a problem.

and pve, blizzard would balance that stuff anyways ;)


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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Polihayse » Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:28 pm

I think that Blizzard might put bloodtalons in the tier 4 talents if they aren't just going to completely overhaul the talent system for the next tier. It seems like a playstyle that is very important to the spec and the tier 4 talents have remained unchanged for a while. The question then would be what to replace it with in the 7th tier. Bloody Thrash?

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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Kojiyama » Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:22 pm

Turn Thrash into an AoE Finisher, make physical DoTs scale from Haste like magical ones do, tune SotF to be actually viable, and either get rid of or completely redesign the failure that is Claws of Shirvallah. Lunar Inspiration also needs some tweaks to make it more viable in a broader variety of situations.

I would also consider making Incarnation baseline for all Druid specs. Having to talent for a 3 minute cooldown is silly given how critical it is on so many fights.

Ferals don't need a massive rework, but they do need some changes that resolve the following issues:
1) Haste being pretty close to totally worthless
2) Not having enough choice on the DPS talent tiers
3) Not having a way to convert combo points (a powerful resource) into AoE damage at a fair rate
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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Polihayse » Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:13 pm

There should be more situations in which it is a little unclear as to what the best decision to make is while dpsing. Feral dps is so straightforward right now compared to what it was and I believe that is why it feels so stale. I'm a little used to it right now, but I remember the transition from MoP to WoD. It felt terrible. There should be a lot of small things that you can do to boost your damage by a very small amount that eventually add up to overcome the RNG factor if you can pull them off.

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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Itharius » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:33 am

Yeah, dps right now almost entirely relies on how lucky you get on ferocious bite and shred crits. There's a sizeable amount of variance that's completely RNG. It's nowhere near as bad as some other specs, but it would be a lot less if our damage were more bleed based, like most of the feral community seems to want. It would be easy to fix that problem - just decrease the base damage of shred/bite and increase the base damage of rip/rake/thrash. It would also solve the problem of feral druids being OP in PvP, for whoever cares about that, and it would improve our AoE.

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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Nayni » Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:52 am

Itharius wrote:Yeah, dps right now almost entirely relies on how lucky you get on ferocious bite and shred crits. There's a sizeable amount of variance that's completely RNG. It's nowhere near as bad as some other specs, but it would be a lot less if our damage were more bleed based, like most of the feral community seems to want. It would be easy to fix that problem - just decrease the base damage of shred/bite and increase the base damage of rip/rake/thrash. It would also solve the problem of feral druids being OP in PvP, for whoever cares about that, and it would improve our AoE.
I don't think u realise how stable feral DPS actualy is. The RNG factor that comes into play is actualy very low compared to almost any other class in the game. If I compare playing my feral to my ret paladin. The differences of my gruul parses are insane on my ret paladin from a pull to pull basis, going from 35k to 50k. My feral parses on the other hand are so even, we have nothing to complain about.

Besides, I honestly don't want to go back to the RoRo RNG playstyle either, sure the playstyle itself was dynamic and fun in that regard, but the fact 1 trinket can mean the difference of 500k to 650k dps is not something I enjoy either. Good play should be rewarded with stable DPS, which to me right now, it actualy is when it comes to Feral, sure I'd like some more dynamic things to come back from the Siege playstyle but not if it makes gaps back to what they were.
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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Itharius » Sat Jun 20, 2015 11:32 am

Well yeah, but it still varies enough that it feels like you don't have much control over it. On Gruul my dps ranges from 49k with really bad RNG to 58k with really good RNG, with optimal uptimes and no change in playstyle. Not the sort of swings you see on ret pally or fire mage, but it's still a dice roll.

However, our dps is a lot more stable on cleave or multitarget fights where more of our damage comes from rend and rip. I was saying that if a higher percentage of our damage were bleeds, it would be even more stable AND we'd have better aoe/cleave without fundamentally changing the class.

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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Felucia » Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:04 am

Thrash rework:

For every one of your active Thrash debuffs(x), increase the damage of swipe by 5+(5*x)%.

Obviously needs a cap. (x<=10?)
Don't know this would outdamage Shred already in ST, would have to be tuned accordingly.

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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Ancihcaor » Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:38 pm

Kojiyama wrote:Turn Thrash into an AoE Finisher, make physical DoTs scale from Haste like magical ones do, tune SotF to be actually viable, and either get rid of or completely redesign the failure that is Claws of Shirvallah. Lunar Inspiration also needs some tweaks to make it more viable in a broader variety of situations.

I would also consider making Incarnation baseline for all Druid specs. Having to talent for a 3 minute cooldown is silly given how critical it is on so many fights.

Ferals don't need a massive rework, but they do need some changes that resolve the following issues:
1) Haste being pretty close to totally worthless
2) Not having enough choice on the DPS talent tiers
3) Not having a way to convert combo points (a powerful resource) into AoE damage at a fair rate

^^
That's exactly what I think, and there is a couple ways to do it but it would be minor additions or tweaks.

Haste: something like giving a small buff after landing a finisher, tied to Predatory Swiftness. I was thinking about a buff around 10-20% haste from all source for short amount of time like 6-12s. no new spell or clunky mechanic, just add a small effect to an already similar-themed existing one (PS). Buff duration would be simple like 1sec/cp ?

AoE & combo points: Sustained AoE (Thrash) is ok/poor, burst aoe (Swipe) is just terrible, so Swipe is kinda the one that feels lackluster. Changing Swipe into a finisher raise a concern about how to generate cps in a AoE scenario;

-Change Swipe into a finisher, Thrash generate a cp, and maybe make it hit harder when you reapply it? like a shorter duration but stacking bleed dot? 10s total instead of 15s? so it would ramp up the bleed and generate combo points.
or
-Keep Swipe with same mechanic, but buff it and add an AoE effect to existing no-damaging finisher like SR or even Maim. It's basically almost the same concept idea with haste suggestion explained above; a small and short dynamic stat buff in that case Crit, Mastery or even Multistrike. So after you cast 5points SR or Main, your get a 5sec mastery buff, no strong enough to be worth casting for the buff in single target but would be worth it if you have Thrash dot on 5+ targets.

About talents there is just so many thing that can be said I ll stick to those 2 points for now. ;)

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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Polihayse » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:44 am

I don't like how t18 set bonuses make feral play with essentially removing energy pooling. Here is my idea:

(2) Set: Increases the chance for Omen of Clarity to trigger, increases your maximum Energy while in Cat Form by 20, and reduce the global cooldown induced by Rejuvenation by .5 seconds.
(4) Set: Omen of Clarity can stack 2 times and must be activated to be consumed. Casting Rejuvenation activates Omen of Clarity and makes your next Cat Form ability generate 100% of its Energy cost when used.

I believe that this change would restore a degree of complexity to the spec. It would also give us back our ability to pool resources a little bit because we can choose when to gain the energy we need. There is no fear in sitting on a clearcasting if it can stack because you would still be able to generate another one while you had it. This would be a small buff because the ability to store clearcasting would give you the choice when to use it which you normally wouldn't have. This means that the rate at which Omen of Clarity procs due to 2 set would need to be reduced slightly. The set bonuses would also utilize our ability to cast rejuvenation from cat form instead of penalizing it. The current set bonuses discourage casting rejuvenation on other players and I strongly disagree with this choice of design. I am frustrated when I see that good gameplay is not rewarded, and it is either happening more or I'm becoming more aware to it(or it's all in my head). When I think about how much my favorite spec has been dumbed down since MoP, it makes me feel terrible.

sohki
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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by sohki » Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:12 am

not a rework but a few tweaks:

make dream of cenarius do the current + reverse of its current effect. currently if you heal someone else with the talent, you get healed as well. i'd like the effect to also heal a random injured ally if you self cast it. you can decide if you want more control over who you heal by targeting them, but in turn takes more effort/focus from you, or you can just self cast it and let the talent decide who it heals.

give an effect to rejuvenation such that if its ticking (you or an ally), it gives 1-2 energy per tick (multiple rejuvenation doesn't stack).

turn healing touch similar to living seed (via talent or baked into blood talons). because at the moment we really can't save our healing touches to heal because it's part of our rotation. maybe making it dormant on cast and only heal when the target is damaged would help get more healing out of it.

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Polihayse
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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Polihayse » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:06 pm

I like your rejuv and healing touch idea sohki. Druids are supposed to be the dps with heals to go around. If all other classes are going to offer some form of utility to the raid, then they need these extra heals to be unique. Having rejuv give energy per tick reinforces the druid playstyle as a damage dealer with heals. There should be more synergy between these two aspects.

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Polihayse
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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Polihayse » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:22 pm

I think lunar inspiration should be scrapped. If they made it look like the picture below, I might reconsider.

Image

Xanzara
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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Xanzara » Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:25 am

I actually like how LI plays a lot, the problem is that it's paired up against Bloodtalons - that I like the feel of EVEN MORE (except for on constant cleave, it's super fun to me to roll 12 dots on three targets). I wonder if a better design would be to let LI take the place of Force of Nature (and be buffed up appropriately) to be the more consistent damage option (maybe with an edge on cleave) vs incarnations burst and (following earlier suggestions in this thread) SotF being the big AoE talent.

You then free up a slot on 100 that could be bloody thrash, or maybe a Force of Nature'd version of Bloody Thrash (Maybe have the Trent apply rake to everything in range?).

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Polihayse
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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Polihayse » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:12 pm

The only thing LI offers is a different playstyle. This is the main issue. Talents are supposed to be a set of tools that help you handle different situations. In my opinion, every class should have talents that, combined in a certain way, can handle any situation. Some better than others.

Twitchys
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Re: How would you rework Feral Druids?

Post by Twitchys » Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:28 pm

Isn't LI exactly that. It's use case is specifically long-lived cleave, and especially spread cleave (HF Council). It's not that LI is not designed to fill a niche, it's that it simply doesn't compare numerically even within it's niche due to the strength of BT at emphasizing our natural single-target/clustered 2-3 target cleave niche.

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