6.2 Feral Discussion

Face-rippin fun.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Sun Jun 28, 2015 10:40 pm

I noticed this on Xhul'horoc and Socrethar. Did about 1.2x damage from the Soul Eruption rather than the normal amount on Xhul, even including overkill and double-checking that I didn't miss any eruptions.

Socrethar had a really crazy one where I did a 76.6k eruption only hitting a single target (non-Immune) despite it eating up 288k. That's basically "splitting" it 5 ways despite nothing else being even close to in range. Didn't deal any damage on any other targets in that time either, so should have been very straightforward.

It also will split on immune targets, as I found out on Socrethar when the Dominator is up. Would definitely advise not using it on Socrethar for a few different reasons until they at least fix the first bug. However, even accounting for it being split two ways, it still was short. Basically seems super-bugged in Socrethar P2.

Edit: It also seemed to happen twice on Kilrogg, but both of those times coincided with a Hulking Terror dying ~1s before it triggered and splitting two ways even though it didn't actually hit the Terror. (Good luck for me, I guess...!) Happened once on Kormrok too.

Seemed fine on the other fights through Mannoroth.
Image

User avatar
Stenhaldi
Exalted
Posts: 591
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:49 am

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Stenhaldi » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:26 pm

Happens to me all the time (typically multiple times per pull) on Mannoroth and Archimonde too. Most of the time on Archimonde it was shortly after an add died -- suggesting it might be splitting with corpses or such.

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:48 pm

That would mirror what I was seeing on Kormrok, so doesn't seem like an unreasonable conclusion.
Image

User avatar
Kraineth
Revered
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:26 am
Contact:

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Kraineth » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:52 pm

Soul Capacitor's Spirit Eruption effect should now properly only hit intended targets within its area of effect.
Now its not completely terrible i guess? lol

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:25 pm

Fantastic that they fixed it so quickly.

Still need to be careful on some fights (e.g. I'm assuming you can still split it 50/50 with the Dominator and Socrethar if you are in range of him while he is immune bubbled.) But this is really good news overall for not having it end up being net negative so often.
Image

User avatar
Kraineth
Revered
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:26 am
Contact:

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Kraineth » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:29 am

Still glad im last on loot priority for it lol, I don't wanna mess with a trinket that could totally fail

User avatar
Stenhaldi
Exalted
Posts: 591
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:49 am

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Stenhaldi » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:53 pm

Soul Capacitor is still broken.

Ogreson
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:38 am

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Ogreson » Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:27 pm

Stenhaldi wrote:Soul Capacitor is still broken.
In the same way or a new way?

Nayni
Revered
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 4:51 pm

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Nayni » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:34 pm

Would it be worth to open by just biting as much as possible when Soul Cap is up to store as much dmg as possible? It seems like that could actualy be a fairly large DPS increase since ur biting with double trinkets and ring proc on pull.
Image
Naeyni | Kazzak EU

artsdruid
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:58 pm

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by artsdruid » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:43 pm

if youre saying to bite at 1-2 cp with ul capacitor, im not sure if losing out on he GCD's that wouldve been used for incarnation shreds is worth it. but ten again, double crit chance bites op. would be an interesting script to test

User avatar
Kraineth
Revered
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:26 am
Contact:

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Kraineth » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:01 pm

Nayni wrote:Would it be worth to open by just biting as much as possible when Soul Cap is up to store as much dmg as possible? It seems like that could actualy be a fairly large DPS increase since ur biting with double trinkets and ring proc on pull.
Pawkets has mentioned it a couple times, biting on the pull ahead of rip is DPS neutral at best, Biting on pull was my first instinct too but it seems just proceed as normal, you can get a bite off as your second finisher anyways.

User avatar
Stenhaldi
Exalted
Posts: 591
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:49 am

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Stenhaldi » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:01 pm

Ogreson wrote:
Stenhaldi wrote:Soul Capacitor is still broken.
In the same way or a new way?
In the same way. At least, I tried it once, saw it hit 3 targets while doing damage as it if had hit 5, and stopped using it again.

Ogreson
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:38 am

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Ogreson » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:18 pm

Well that's depressing, they just can't seem to get that trinket to work correctly since wasn't it bugged pretty much all of PTR testing as well?

User avatar
aggixx
Exalted
Posts: 2292
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm
Contact:

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by aggixx » Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:01 pm

Yep, sure was.
ImageImage

Dysheki
Revered
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:41 am

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Dysheki » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:55 am

The trinket is just so bizarre and even more difficult to accurately determine it's real power (bugs aside) because of the way skada over-represents damage and how WarcraftLogs can under-represent damage (it still takes the shield as negatives when you hit nothing or bugs and splits incorrectly). I have parses where spirit shift (the negative part) was actually overtaking the positive amount (spirit eruption). So it looks like I'm doing negative damage with the trinket :(

So frustrating that they had to code it the way they did.

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:12 am

I can confirm it was definitely still bugged on Socrethar with damage disappearing into nowhere.

I decided to test it out since the trinket was treating me really well tonight. (It pretty much broke the RNG meters on Zakuun by being up 90% of the duration of Time Warp during cooldowns execute with 3 successive procs... Doubt I will see that again any time soon.) It seemed fine on all the other fights, but perhaps it just happens less frequently now.

I don't think WCL is under-representing the damage though? It just treats it the same way they handle Spirit Link Totem by applying (correctly) the negative absorb to your total. If the explosion fails to split correctly, you do actually lose damage--so that is fair on WCL's part. They have made some changes to try to 'hide' the negative more in the charts/graphs and the filters, which make them easier to view but harder to diagnose if the trinket is working correctly.

The real power of the trinket is in crazy situations like my Zakuun parse, where it just completely balloons your DPS... but it certainly has some major downsides that you have to play around.
Image

User avatar
aggixx
Exalted
Posts: 2292
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm
Contact:

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by aggixx » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:42 am

Yeah, what Kojiyama said. If it looks like you're doing negative damage its because you are doing negative damage.
ImageImage

Ogreson
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:38 am

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Ogreson » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:43 am

They have appeared to have fixed the bugged out part with skada counting the damage dealt while the proc is active as real damage. Looked at my logs from tonight and compared them to skada and they were the same.

Dysheki
Revered
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:41 am

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Dysheki » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:07 am

You're right, it would be correct as the damage is absorbed and never released. Logic is not a strong point late at night after raid while half asleep lol.

User avatar
aggixx
Exalted
Posts: 2292
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm
Contact:

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by aggixx » Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:02 am

Ogreson wrote:They have appeared to have fixed the bugged out part with skada counting the damage dealt while the proc is active as real damage. Looked at my logs from tonight and compared them to skada and they were the same.
Skada hasn't had a release since the patch came out so I'm pretty sure you're incorrect :P
ImageImage

User avatar
Kraineth
Revered
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:26 am
Contact:

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Kraineth » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:17 pm

Kojiyama wrote:The real power of the trinket is in crazy situations like my Zakuun parse, where it just completely balloons your DPS... but it certainly has some major downsides that you have to play around.
Yep, Zakuun is just about the best fight for it. I think it generates aggro from the absorb and explosion though, a bunch of procs on the pull had me pulling aggro off tanks on him this week due to spiking at ~180k DPS over the first 20 seconds.

So yea, if you get two procs on the pull, call for a sac or something.

Ogreson
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:38 am

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Ogreson » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:50 pm

aggixx wrote:Skada hasn't had a release since the patch came out so I'm pretty sure you're incorrect
Well that would mean that warcraftlogs is also incorrectly recording the damage as well because I went through my fights on both logs and skada and saw the same resulting damages for my abilities.
Last edited by Ogreson on Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:53 pm

Regarding damages for your abilities, Skada and WCL will show those the same for everything other than the total DPS. WCL applies a negative absorb attributed to Spirit Shift to adjust your total DPS downward, which is the part that Skada does not do. Everything should look the same other than your overall DPS number.

Something I noticed in regard to WCL and potentially Skada too is that our Crit% is not being accurately reported when the Soul Capacitor is up because it just counts it as an absorb without a crit result. 11 out of my 15 FBs on Zakuun were clearly Crits but it is only reporting the non-absorbed ones in the Crit% and shows 36.4% instead of 73.3%. Going to make a post about that on the WCL forums.
Image

Ogreson
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:38 am

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Ogreson » Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:57 pm

Ah my bad, and yeah I noticed my crit % on FB seemed a lot lower than it should be.

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: 6.2 Feral Discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:12 pm

Apparently this is a combat log limitation, which is pretty annoying. Absorbs come through as 'misses' so cannot show as crits.
Image

Post Reply