Soul Capicator

Face-rippin fun.

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CowPond
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by CowPond » Sat Sep 26, 2015 12:23 am

Wow great thanks pawketz! I can't wait to see what my values yield.

cansr
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by cansr » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:02 am

I've been forcing my soul cap to proc later into my rotation (3-4 sec) for more of big numbers factor. I haven't looked into it much, but I would assume that it isn't a bad idea. I hear of windwalkers doing it, taking off the trinket/putting it back on 11sec before they want it to proc(with it's 11second igcd), so they can get it during the 'peak' of there burst.

Any thoughts on this? Obviously i don't imagine it's a game breaker, but it allows me to consistently get 2 bites In during the opener proc, just wanted to hear other players general thoughts on this. No I don't always do this for situations like kormrok, etc.

My first concern is obviously players pre pulling or forgetting to put it on, or just putting it on too late and having bad timing with ring (having to cancel it early etc)
My second concern is an extreme case where the trinket doesn't proc before ring will line up, again making me cancel it so it interacts with ring properly(ring soaks it)
Third concern, how does this affect those double proc situations back to back? Would it become an even higher dps gain? I'll try to describe the scenario.
-my guild pops ring 2/3 seconds in
-trinket procs at ~3/4 second in, I just finished using rip
-trinket explodes at 14 sec mark with two bites in it
-trinket procs second time, at 14/15 seconds
-Ring explodes at 17/18 seconds.

It seems super tight from experience, and sometimes I cant get a Healing touch of on my last bite in the soul cap, without missing the window of the benefit of my 37% soul cap, plus that dmg being modified by ring explosion after. Witch brings me to my last question; how do we feel about biting without HT, if we cant do both in time, during a soul cap, knowing the explosion of the cap will be amplified by ring, and we wont risk running out of energy during berserk?
Outside of beserk/ring I don't bother trying to force a bite into soul cap without a Ht. Due to all the various factors like not being gcd locked, losing dmg on my next rake or shred, etc(because of no blood talons). So basicly the question only pertains to during CDS when SC procs
Last edited by cansr on Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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aggixx
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by aggixx » Tue Sep 29, 2015 2:20 am

I just added the necessary functionality to test this in SimulationCraft. On any item that has a proc effect with a cooldown, you can use the "initial_cd" option to specify its cooldown when combat begins. For example:

Code: Select all

trinket2=soul_capacitor,id=124225,bonus_id=567,initial_cd=3.5
Edit: Alright here's what I got:
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The blue series uses the default action list, while the red series includes a cancel aura that cancels before the ring ends if spirit shift has less than 4.63 seconds remaining. Both profiles use the ring at 1 second into the fight, which is why you see the blue series take a sharp drop at the 6 second mark (the eruption no longer falls within the ring's duration). Observing the red series we can see that it is still the best for the explosion to occur prior to the ring fading without cancelling, but cancelling it to make that happen is acceptable if the timing does not work out perfectly.

So it seems pretty clear that, at least to optimize average DPS, it is best to aim for your Soul Capacitor to explode at the last possible second during your ring and cancel if needed to ensure that happens.
cansr wrote:My first concern is obviously players pre pulling or forgetting to put it on, or just putting it on too late and having bad timing with ring (having to cancel it early etc)
Don't take it off if you don't have to. If you're using a non use trinket as your other trinket you can just swap your trinkets around at your desired time without having to take either of them off.
cansr wrote:Third concern, how does this affect those double proc situations back to back? Would it become an even higher dps gain?
While theoretically in the best case scenario (back to back spirit shifts for the whole fight) not delaying is better, here's the same tests but looking at the 95th percentile instead of average DPS. I'm including 4.5s as well as that's most you can delay it while making sure the first soul cap explodes into the ring and the ring explodes into a second soul cap.

0.0s: 97360
4.5s: 97551
5.5s: 97654

So the optimal timing if you're trying to rank is the same.
cansr wrote:Witch brings me to my last question; how do we feel about biting without HT, if we cant do both in time, during a soul cap, knowing the explosion of the cap will be amplified by ring, and we wont risk running out of energy during berserk?
Outside of beserk/ring I don't bother trying to force a bite into soul cap without a Ht. Due to all the various factors like not being gcd locked, losing dmg on my next rake or shred, etc(because of no blood talons). So basicly the question only pertains to during CDS when SC procs
Should be a clear gain. The bite's doing 1.37/1.3 = ~5% more damage than if you HT'd first, and that BT stack gets to benefit something else.

Edit 2: Updated chart for without the ring since you don't always use it on pull. Mostly doesn't matter but 5.5 is still the sweet spot. The DPS is higher because the profile is using a higher item level ring, but at 60s in.
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by aggixx » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:33 am

So I figured you could just write a WeakAura that automatically swaps your trinket at the right time for you, so I did. Feel free to try it out:
http://pastebin.com/zJd9kkgC

Its hooked off BigWigs pull timer, so if you're not using BigWigs it won't work. It doesn't do anything unless you have Soul Capacitor equipped, and you can set whatever delay you'd like in Actions > Init > Custom Code, but the default is 5.5s. If the pull timer isn't long enough to achieve the desired delay then it just swaps as fast as it can.

Considering its a WA that manipulates your items, I guess I should put a disclaimer saying use at your own risk. But it does seem to work perfectly in my hideout! :P
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Trepex
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Trepex » Tue Sep 29, 2015 3:33 pm

Tried this WA on a dummy with the default delay and the trinket didn't pop until about one minute after I engaged. Have you seen the same or does it pop reliably a couple of seconds into the fight?

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aggixx
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by aggixx » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:13 pm

You need to engage a boss encounter for the rampup of your trinkets to be modified, it won't work on a dummy. You can test it on Marrowgar or something.
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cansr
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by cansr » Tue Sep 29, 2015 6:27 pm

@pawketz

Well done, I am really appreciative on the math behind it all. Also this WeakAura has made my day ;)

I guess I should now worry about getting our melee officer to use the ring properly, or at least consistently
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kravotir
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by kravotir » Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:30 pm

Any chance of getting this to work with dbm? With their latest version they added it so you can do /pull instead of /dbm pull.

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aggixx
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by aggixx » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:24 pm

In theory its possible but having trouble getting the DBM Timer trigger in WeakAuras to work. Trying to get that issue solved and once I do I'll post the aura.
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kravotir
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by kravotir » Tue Sep 29, 2015 8:40 pm

aggixx wrote:In theory its possible but having trouble getting the DBM Timer trigger in WeakAuras to work. Trying to get that issue solved and once I do I'll post the aura.
Yeah i was reading over https://github.com/WeakAuras/WeakAuras2 ... otypes.lua

Working on it myself, If i get anything i'll post as well.

cansr
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by cansr » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:03 pm

well, I realized that my guild uses DBM, when I had my tank test pull marrowgar. but on my screen, as a big wigs player, it still shows pull timer.. is there a issue there? it wasn't resetting the IGCD and it continued to proc on pull on marrowgar with him doing a pull timer, even though I have big wig's timers only.
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eksdra
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by eksdra » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:10 pm

I'm having the same issue. I use Bigwigs but my RL uses DBM. The aura isn't working for me.

kravotir
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by kravotir » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:16 pm

In the mean time a simple macro should work.

Code: Select all

/equipslot 14 Soul Capacitor
/equipslot 13 Soul Capacitor

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aggixx
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by aggixx » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:17 pm

Hmm, and it worked if did the pull timer yourself? I haven't tested it with someone else doing the pull timer. The BW/DBM trigger functionality the aura uses is very new and not perfect so its possible there's some kinks to work out.
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eksdra
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by eksdra » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:24 pm

I'll do a pull timer on myself at our break and let you know what happens.

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aggixx
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by aggixx » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:29 pm

Just had someone test it with me, them doing the pull timers, it worked with both BigWigs and DBM. So... not sure why its not working for you. It should work (although maybe not optimally) on any locale.

Does it link your Soul Capacitor in your chat when the pull timer reaches the number in trigger 1? If it doesn't then the aura either isn't triggering at all, or its not finding Soul Capacitor equipped on your character. And from there you can see if its triggering by changing the opacity of the color setting in the Display tab; if it shows up its triggering.
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eksdra
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by eksdra » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:40 pm

It links in my chat log every time I exit combat. Edit: I changed the opacity and the aura is always active.
Last edited by eksdra on Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by aggixx » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:45 pm

Yeah, not sure. That would indicate to me that it doesn't notice the pull timer has happened until the fight is over. Which I guess could maybe happen you get put in combat before 9.5s? but that shouldn't explain it.
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eksdra
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by eksdra » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:47 pm

I am really, extraordinarily dumb tonight. I hadn't updated Weakauras so it didn't even have the right functionality haha.

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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by aggixx » Wed Sep 30, 2015 2:13 am

Ah, yeah, that'd do it. Make sure you have the latest version of WA.

Got Soul Cap tonight and it worked gloriously for me. I think at the end of the night my trinkets were in the opposite slots so I might need to tweak it a little if I want it to stay consistent, but I guess the way its setup it already won't mess with your slots if you're using Mirror so its good enough.

I'll probably make a thread for it in the addon forum once I'm satisfied with it and have a DBM version.
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cansr
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by cansr » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:57 am

That may help that I update WA. Is resetting the trinket ICD something that you've been thinking about for a while, and I simply gave you an opportunity to present it the info on, or did you do the graphing on sims, and make that WeakAura after my query ? Just curious.
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by aggixx » Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:59 pm

Its something our WW brought up while I was playing my warrior, wanted to look into it more for feral but forgot/never got around to it.
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adianar
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by adianar » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:16 pm

Dumb I know, but I haven't ever been able to get Simcraft working since we lost the specialized feral app we had...

Do I use Soul Capacitor with a crit 75 socket or the WF version? both heroic....


Thanks in advance.

Adi

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CowPond
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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by CowPond » Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:32 pm

Used the delayed proc all last night and it's fantastic, 5.5s is spot on. With the delay and using incarn at 1sec pull timer I always get a rip and 2 bites in. I recommended delaying proc to our rogues just for Kilrogg to blow up the first add, it's almost too much though as the add is dying too quickly (a first) and exploding on group. Tanks just had to adjust. Things like this is why I love this forum. Thanks

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Re: Soul Capicator

Post by aggixx » Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:41 am

I noticed my shift was expiring after Maalus a bit too much (5 out of 12 times) so I'll probably adjust my delay down a tad. I had a 2.2m opener explosion which seems great for my minimum item level ring :P Glad its working out for you as well Cowpond :)
adianar wrote:Dumb I know, but I haven't ever been able to get Simcraft working since we lost the specialized feral app we had...

Do I use Soul Capacitor with a crit 75 socket or the WF version? both heroic....
Warforged is better, but barely. Did the same comparison for my character (mythic trinket) and it was about triple that difference.
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If you have any questions how to get SimC working, though, feel free to ask! I guess this probably isn't the best thread to do so, but you're welcome to PM me.
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