Soul Capicator

Face-rippin fun.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

User avatar
Bluewulf
Honored
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:19 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Bluewulf » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:01 am

I got about 6 procs back to back tonight on kormrok and had no threat issues with double guardians
Bluewulf (Redwolf/Bluewulf) - Illidan US

Synesis
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:20 am

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Synesis » Wed Jul 15, 2015 11:48 am

Only real threat issue I ever had (bear/monk combo) had was blowing up the dominator on socrethar for 1.8mil instantly after he came out lol.

Batlecruiser
Honored
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:04 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Batlecruiser » Thu Jul 16, 2015 3:01 am

Found a nice weak aura displaying the stored damage during spirit shift.
1. Weak Auras
Progress bar of the debuff - http://pastebin.com/BDR62a80
Tracker of the Damage stored - http://pastebin.com/r8Uidnk4
Source: http://ravenholdt.net/index.php/forums/ ... ?f=9&t=350

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Kojiyama » Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:09 am

I also created one with the help of Aggixx last week that fits nicely with anyone using his other WA2 HUD: http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5513
Image

davidrm15
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 7:10 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by davidrm15 » Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:38 pm

I win this trinket today, anyone can help me about in what fight need cancelaura ( if still work ) and what fight need spirit explode ? im really confuse about this trinket because i think loss dps when change my skull of war ( and still have idea back to mirror + skull in certain fights)

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Kojiyama » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:52 pm

davidrm15 wrote:I win this trinket today, anyone can help me about in what fight need cancelaura ( if still work ) and what fight need spirit explode ? im really confuse about this trinket because i think loss dps when change my skull of war ( and still have idea back to mirror + skull in certain fights)
Check out this post on page 1: http://fluiddruid.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 511#p31005

Soul Capacitor is almost certainly going to be better than Skull of War for you.

I only manually triggered it a handful of times in a full Heroic clear last night. It's something you need to watch for but only really comes up occasionally.
Image

Ogreson
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:38 am

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Ogreson » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:05 pm

So I don't know if it's just me but I noticed even after the so called fix to Soul Capacitor not exploding on corpses on Socrethar even without exploding on an immune Socrethar the trinket does severely less net damage than every other fight.

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Kojiyama » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:27 pm

Hmm, I have not been experiencing that since the corpse hotfix. Last night my explosion value on Socrethar was exactly what it should be based on the Spirit Shift absorb. (8 procs, -4.23m absorb, 5.61m damage, 32.6% increase w/ with Heroic Warforged trinket which states 32.57% in the tooltip.)
Image

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Kojiyama » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:04 pm

Quick notes about the Soul Capacitor interaction with the Legendary Ring (nothing shocking):

1) Asborbed damage does not count toward the ring
2) The trinket can absorb the ring explosion
3) The ring will count the trinket explosion

Generally, these interactions are somewhat favorable except in the situation where the trinket has been up for a large portion of the ring buff yet does not explode prior to the ring buff fading. In this case, you will get next to nothing from the ring explosion. In most cases, it is probably worth exploding the trinket manually in this case.

That said, if the trinket has only been up a small amount of time when the ring is about to fade, it is probably worth 'capturing' the ring explosion to further magnify it later.

Probably need to do some simming to figure out the actual duration breakpoint for when you should manually explode the trinket vs. capture the explosion.
Image

Ogreson
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 8:38 am

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Ogreson » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:24 pm

Yeah I guess I just get really bad proc timing on Socrethar because on most other fights I get a net 1m+ damage but on Socrethar it always seems to be less than 1m. Did the math and it comes out right, just seems off. Bad case of RNG I guess. Also that ring interaction is nice to know, probably had that happen to me a couple times last night.

Dominati
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 12:36 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Dominati » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:15 pm

Kojiyama wrote:Quick notes about the Soul Capacitor interaction with the Legendary Ring (nothing shocking):

1) Asborbed damage does not count toward the ring
2) The trinket can absorb the ring explosion
3) The ring will count the trinket explosion
I haven't had time to look into it personally (got the ring thismorning), but in the two openers I did, I saw a significant increase in damage when I exploded my ring into my capacitor. All other posts I've seen in relation to how soul cap interacts with ring say that having the ring explode during spirit shift effectively loses the explosion; they all suggested they don't double dip. How confident are you that this is correct?

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Kojiyama » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:49 pm

They don't 'double dip' but one can absorb the other depending on which one fires off first. This means they can multiply eachother just like any other damage. The multiplier doesn't apply twice though (you get the damage multiplier on the absorbed damage but not the SC explosion which is a result of multiplied damage,) so double dip would be incorrect terminology.

How would you explode your ring into the capacitor on the pull? Capacitor nearly always triggers immediately on the pull and explodes 5s prior to the earliest the ring can go off?
Image

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Kojiyama » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:38 am

For some more examples, something like this:

Just Soul Capacitor:
1) You hit for 100 damage (absorbed)
2) You explode for 135 damage

Soul Capacitor w/ Ring up:
1) You hit for 125 damage (asborbed)
2) You explode for 169 damage
3) Your ring explodes for 45 damage

Ring w/ Soul Capacitor up:
1) You hit for 125
...Soul Capacitor up
2) You hit for 125 (absorbed)
3) Your ring explodes for 31 (absorbed)
4) You explode for 210

So although they do interact, they don't double dip in any way. e.g. the Spirit Shift explosion is not multiplied by the ring (since it is based on absorbed damage which is multiplied) however the damage from the explosion will be stored for the ring explosion later. Absorbed damage does not count toward the ring explosion, so nothing is ever counted twice.
Image

Tremnen
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:50 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Tremnen » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:21 am

Im really trying to see if this trinket is worth it. The base agility is good but looking at my logs the damage fromt he proc just seems underwhelming?

For instance this kill on zakuun. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Rt ... &source=15

Spirit eruption - Spirit shift means the proc only gave me 750K. For reference Void Tendril Trinket (the heirloom trinket) On one on use gave me over 825K damage. Obviously the base agi is going to make soul cap better regardless but this feels very underwhelming am i doing something very wrong?

ShmooDude
Exalted
Posts: 1080
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by ShmooDude » Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:21 am

Tremnen wrote:Im really trying to see if this trinket is worth it. The base agility is good but looking at my logs the damage fromt he proc just seems underwhelming?

For instance this kill on zakuun. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Rt ... &source=15

Spirit eruption - Spirit shift means the proc only gave me 750K. For reference Void Tendril Trinket (the heirloom trinket) On one on use gave me over 825K damage. Obviously the base agi is going to make soul cap better regardless but this feels very underwhelming am i doing something very wrong?
Assuming those numbers are right I'm pretty sure that that speaks more to the Void Tendril on use being overpowered rather than Spirit eruption being underpowered. Better comparison would probably be vs the mirror trinket.

Zstriker
Honored
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:55 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Zstriker » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:48 am

more I play with this trinket - more I see it's so crap and fail mechanics wise(those absorbs and then explosion) , and more I want to replace it forever
even 2 single fight like Zakun and Iron reaver it seems to always get proced on on boss jumps away...not justify in my eyes at all for all of encounters designed this `many adds` tier

Dysheki
Revered
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:41 am

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Dysheki » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:04 am

My average proc on mythic fel lord last night was 342k (accounting for ability damage) and nearly 8% of my damage on 5 procs. It's pretty good if you don't get unlucky.

Compared do to my legendary ring proc: 422k average for just shy of 4% of my damage on 2 procs.

User avatar
Bluewulf
Honored
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:19 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Bluewulf » Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:17 am

I'm finding soul cap pretty enjoyable and far from crap. As long as your using your cancelaura the failure is mostly on the player rather than the trinket.
Bluewulf (Redwolf/Bluewulf) - Illidan US

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Kojiyama » Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:17 am

Zstriker wrote:more I play with this trinket - more I see it's so crap and fail mechanics wise(those absorbs and then explosion) , and more I want to replace it forever
even 2 single fight like Zakun and Iron reaver it seems to always get proced on on boss jumps away...not justify in my eyes at all for all of encounters designed this `many adds` tier
You don't really need to worry about it proccing when the boss jumps away. It's not a big deal and really no different than any other random proc that could happen at that time (e.g. Censer) instead. The only thing you need to manage with the Soul Capacitor is making sure you manually explode it if the boss jumping away is going to cause you to lose damage from the explosion missing.

Soul Capacitor is a fantastic trinket on the majority of fights because it is just hands-down more powerful on the top-end than anything else we have available.

For example, on Tremnen's logs the Soul Capacitor proc is accounting for 6.2% of his damage. I'm not really sure what there is to complain about there. Other than the overpowered Doom Nova procs (which I'm baffled hasn't gotten nerfed yet given how aggressive they were about nerfing the crap out of Fel Cleave...not allowed to touch Arcane I guess!) that contribution is pretty much at the top end of trinket effect value right now. The value of the Seed of Creation, for instance, is probably only around the mid-5% range which is also around the usual value of Felstorm on single target.

Also, only 3 procs in a 3 minute fight is on the low end of what you will get from the trinket due to the proc on the pull and RPPM mechanics.

My kill of Zakuun this week had Soul Capacitor at 6.1% of my damage, Felstorm as 3.7% of my damage, and Maalus as 6.5% of my damage.

My Mythic Kilrogg kill last night (not going down) which is basically just tank-and-spank for melee, Felstorm was only 6.3% of my damage even though I timed it to overlap with the big add every time and sometimes cleaving to a 3rd add (Bloodthirster) that spawned or was gripped to the boss. Spirit Shift, however, accounted for 2.28m damage or 10.5% of my damage on that fight.

There are certainly a couple fights where Soul Capacitor is awkward, but when it is practical I see absolutely no reason not to use it. The control we have over exploding it on demand has taken away the majority of negatives with the trinket, so there are very few situations where it is actually detrimental. (e.g. I did not use it on our first Mythic Council kill because I didn't want to split that much damage to Blademaster during the Bloodboil burn period.)
Image

Zstriker
Honored
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:55 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Zstriker » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:36 pm

ye ofc it's not proc itself, but explosion,
to proc I have different claims of `target need to die fast` and `target very low hp`

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Kojiyama » Thu Jul 30, 2015 1:33 pm

Just blow it up manually then by cancelling the aura. Having a "/cancelaura Spirit Shift" macro is pretty much required for optimal use of the trinket.

None of the mechanics where bosses jump away are random in HFC. They all have timers and can be navigated by use of the macro. The more random events are when you have to run away due to Touch of Doom/Fel Touched/Reap but you can just play that by ear based on the duration and timing of the buff.

'Target needs to die fast' and 'target very low HP' can still be navigated by use of /cancelaura and the Weak Aura setup I posted in the UI forums for tracking the stored damage. Just watch your accumulated damage and compare it to the health of your target. If they are getting close, blow it up manually and pretend you're a Monk using Touch of Death. ;)
Image

Tremnen
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:50 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Tremnen » Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:15 pm

sadly I dont have a mirror to test but Im thinking of dropping my Heroic Soulcap for my Mythic Beating Heart. It being sync'ed with the ring every time I think will pull it ahead. Plus it lets me control where my damage is going.

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Kojiyama » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:03 pm

I really doubt it will. Soul Capacitor sims around 6.6% (which is similar to what you saw in your parse) which is pretty significant.

You are probably going to be leaving around 3k DPS on the table by going back to the Heart (at least I would) and the use effect on the Heart is only simming around 4% for me even with it interacting with the ring favorably.

I'm not totally sure I understand why you say that the proc "just seems underwhelming" when it was 6.2% of your damage in those logs. You would be very hard-pressed to find anything that will beat that--especially considering the Agility loss going back to something like an ilevel 700 trinket.
Image

Dysheki
Revered
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:41 am

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Dysheki » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:09 pm

I use mythic trigger for mythic gore fiend for fear of accidentally breaking people out. It's a noticeable difference and makes me cry I don't have a different heroic hfc option. I may try to sneak it on for some pulls next week though.

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Soul Capicator

Post by Kojiyama » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:05 pm

Yeah, I could definitely see that. I use Mirror + Seed when I don't want to use Capacitor for whatever reason right now. I might pick up a Censer as a backup at some point when everyone else has one, but can't really justify picking up any more sidegrade options.
Image

Post Reply