7.0 Rumors and discussion

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Millerr
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Millerr » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:11 pm

Leaked pic of new the new druid class hall
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Minibubble
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Minibubble » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:57 pm

Yesterday we joked about that the druid hall would be just a box :D
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Lynxx
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Lynxx » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:17 pm

I would think Demon hunter would be mail. We need a mail tank. I already have enough competition on trinkets, rings, etc. I don't need anymore on armor! LoL!


Also I would be ok with a life size cat tree.
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ShmooDude
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by ShmooDude » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:21 pm

Tremnen wrote:melee to ranged amount of specs doesnt even matter. if it was 50 melee : 5 ranged specs raids just wouldnt take a ton of melee specs to meet the criteria for bosses. all of this complaining i keep seeing on forums about adding 2 melee specs is ridiculous and hilarious. If your raid already has 9 melee dps guess what you arent going to be recruiting?

The only complaint I can kind of agree with is if Survival is the best dps spec of the hunter specs you would want to go Survival which would feel bad if you are forced to go range for encounter requirements.

If your raid is running 9 agi dps specs in their core group your raid is probably doing something wrong with their composition which means the agi trinket "problem" is easily solved by just not recruiting classes you dont want.

You dont recruit a 15th vanq token user in a mythic guild why do people think you are going to have 10 leather dps users?
And that's EXACTLY the issue. It won't necessarily show up on an individual scale, but on the raiders as a whole. There's only so much room for melee, and leather melee in particular are being pushed out. Now with yet another two agi melee classes being added they're going to be pushed out (ie quit all together, or forced to reroll as guilds collapse and reform).

Look at parses so far this expansion:
Mythic Highmaul:
Rogue: 8.6%
Warrior: 7.5%
Retribution: 6.9%
DK: 6.2%
Feral 3.3%
Enhancement: 3.2%
Windwalker: 2.8%
Total Melee: 38.5%

Mythic BRF:
Rogue: 8.6%
Warrior: 7.3%
DK: 6.7%
Retribution: 6.2%
Feral: 3.2%
Enhancement: 3.2%
Windwalker: 2.5%
Total Melee: 37.7%

Mythic HFC:
Rogue: 10.4%
DK: 8.0%
Warrior: 7.8%
Retribution: 6.4%
Feral: 2.1%
Enhancement: 2.3%
Windwalker: 1.8%
Total Melee: 38.8%

As you can see the total amount of melee being brought is fairly stable at around 38%, but non-rogue agi melee are being squeezed out and replaced either with rogues or plate melee. There's now more mythic rogues than there are Feral, Enhancement and Windwalkers combined. The addition of more melee based agi classes is simply going to make the problem worse without some kind of other change to make agi melee hybrids more favorable.

Ogreson
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Ogreson » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:44 am

I stand corrected, survival has indeed been confirmed to be melee in Legion. Shouldn't impact us as feral all too much because of the artifact weapons.

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Minibubble
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Minibubble » Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:04 am

Ogreson wrote:I stand corrected, survival has indeed been confirmed to be melee in Legion. Shouldn't impact us as feral all too much because of the artifact weapons.
Still they will role for melee trinket too. Also the switch between melee and range spec will be easier for hunters than Feral/boomkin. I play mostly random raids, so there is not much problem with grear (pl) but it is hard to find a melee spot. I hope we get a good rehaul of our skills that we stay on the top of the melee spectrum. Did anyone btw heard the q&a announcement for sunday? I didnt find the time and unfortunately im on mobile.
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Tremnen
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Tremnen » Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:29 pm

To be fair. Enhance was never a popular raiding spec. Windwalkers only saw an increase in play rate because they had a broken pvp bonus at the beginning of the expansion, between the fix for that rogue buffs and some nerfs they saw a decrease in population fairly quickly. Ferals have always been a niche spec and see reduced play throughout this entire expansion because balance was just dominant and MANY ferals were pressured to play Balance to help for progression reasons.

The real reason some agi specs have seen decline this expansion on the highend is because in general there hasnt been much balancing work to keep them even. Enhance went months being a complete trash tier spec. Feral cant even top charts this tier in pure single target against equally geared casters, WindWalkers only do well in a 2-3 target niche that isnt represented in a lot of fights. Where as Rets in general seem strong in raids, DKs were overtuned at the start of this patch and offer tons of mass add utility with gorefiends grasp, and warriors are basically the strongest melee class in the game right now. A lot of people rerolled strength melee (look at pawketts and Fragnance) because of just how strong the 2 strength trinkets were at the start of this patch.

My argument is basically of course you will see a migration because the agility melee outside of rogues arent really on the same playing field as the strength dps this tier started at.

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Lynxx
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Lynxx » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:47 pm

UGH, i am not looking forward to raid comps being decided. Everyone and their mother is going to be rolling DH. I will be sticking with my feral. Im so afraid that I will be asked to roll rogue or DH because the label of feral going out of WoD isnt going to be good. I am sure they have things somewhat worked out, but dang, we got too much agi and too much melee.
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musashibo
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by musashibo » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:53 pm

Switched to tree for the first time this expac b/c of HM and BRF... looks I'm going to be staying tree for the next expac too.

teddabear
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by teddabear » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:33 am

Lynxx wrote:UGH, i am not looking forward to raid comps being decided. Everyone and their mother is going to be rolling DH. I will be sticking with my feral. Im so afraid that I will be asked to roll rogue or DH because the label of feral going out of WoD isnt going to be good. I am sure they have things somewhat worked out, but dang, we got too much agi and too much melee.
I think every Feral owes it to themselves to seriously try DH. It would not be surprising if it is as OP as the last Hero class. I haven't seen any indication Blizzard plans to fix Feral in this expansion or the next. The only tuning they have done lately is to make sure Mages, Rogues, Warlocks and Hunters were above Feral in single target and removed their raid CDs. Without indication to the contrary I expect they plan to keep it this way in the future.

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Tinderhoof
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Tinderhoof » Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:40 am

Tremnen wrote: A lot of people rerolled strength melee (look at pawketts and Fragnance)
Likely me as well.

Ogreson
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Ogreson » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:13 am

There is some potential light at the end of the tunnel with the pvp changes in Legion, means they can hopefully not have to screw feral over in pve because they'd be too strong in pvp. But as for the rest of this expansion things don't look to be changing so I've been gearing my rogue up to provide something more versatile in mythic as sad as it makes me.

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Sibylle
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Sibylle » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:28 am

Tremnen wrote:ive seen so many guilds breaking up. there are players out there to recruit from. trust me my guild almost broke up before BRF but we recruited 8 people in a week. Recruiting is hard but good recruiting is very very important.
I guess your raid plays on a rather higher level than ours :)

We are on an insanely overpopulated realm with almost all Horde (and we are Horde). The competition is intense. We do a lot of recruitment, but we still haven't gotten a stable 20man line-up. People join, others leave. If you look around, a lot of guilds are struggling with this (that's why, as you noted, they're breaking up). We are a very old, well-known, multi-game guild, people like joining us but we *still* struggle. If you don't believe me, look at forums, Blizzard Watch - everyone is telling the same story. Top guilds are not exactly the norm, and as for the rest, it's hard as nails.
-Sibylle

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Nayni
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Nayni » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:24 am

Was able to play Feral until we got to Xhul which is where I had my alt rogue, even with 10 ilvls behind, was more useful then my feral simple because it can deal with the blackholes.

For Mannaroth I'm on tanking duty and now that our second tank is on vacation I actually had to tank our farm raid as well. Feral is one of the first classes to be swapped for better composition because it is both melee and has no true strength.

For Legion I'm very much considering to reroll, I was happy to see the catforms as a visual gimmick but in that end that gimmick is not what's going to give me a raid spot. I'll be keeping a close eye on the new Demon Hunter class to see how viable it is and if so I'll most likely reroll to that since it's basically swapping melee with melee with the option to tank which is the role I'm doing now anyway.

I'm very curious to see if Blizzard is planning to do something about any of the Feral issues. I read from the Dev interview they like the idea of Melee and Ranged favorable fights, but from my experience, melee is always the role that gets shafted first, so for me to consider a melee spot for Legion I want it to be something with a true strength, not some so-so hybrid which basically is good at nothing.

I actually got proper annoying yesterday as I was trying to solo ToT HC and had so much trouble with Horridon because Feral off target dps and AoE is so incredibly bad. Our whole kit right now is so disconnected with the rest of this game it's really getting under my skin even outside of raiding.
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cg1351
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by cg1351 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:49 am

Dunno how any real feral main could even consider another spec let alone class :O Ever tried swapping to rogue? Holy shit i barely stayed awake for 1 lfr lol
Don't you love getting to that point you can play arguably the most complex spec in the game on instinct :D Giving you plenty of time to wind everyone else up while always doing good dps :)

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Polihayse
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Polihayse » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:10 pm

Feral is not complicated. I don't know why people say that. If anything is driving me away from the spec it is this fact.

Nich
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Nich » Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:43 pm

cg1351 wrote:Dunno how any real feral main could even consider another spec let alone class :O Ever tried swapping to rogue? Holy shit i barely stayed awake for 1 lfr lol
The only other spec I'd play is a sub rogue, and I hear they're viewed even less favourably than feral. Not that I'd know, because the only time I see sub rogues in raids are on my rogue alt, and I've never been asked to reroll due to not being competitive o.0


It'd be nice for them to work out a system for us to use daggers, either a real dual-wield system, or just a multiplier on a single dagger. As an option to staffs.

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Tinderhoof
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Tinderhoof » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:02 pm

Why would daggers improve us?

cg1351
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by cg1351 » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:10 pm

Polihayse wrote:Feral is not complicated. I don't know why people say that. If anything is driving me away from the spec it is this fact.
You must be new to this game :)

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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Nayni » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:18 pm

Nich wrote:The only other spec I'd play is a sub rogue, and I hear they're viewed even less favourably than feral. Not that I'd know, because the only time I see sub rogues in raids are on my rogue alt, and I've never been asked to reroll due to not being competitive o.0
I don't know what rock you've been living under but rogue as a whole is arguably the most viable melee DPS at the moment, Sub rogue beeing the best spec when it comes to single target with the option of target swapping easely, having very frequent and very high 10 second burst windows that are very good for priority adds.

Also as Poli said, Feral is not complex anymore, which has also taken away a lot of my desire to play it as well. Besides I rather play a dull viable spec and do progression then play a "complex" spec and sit on the sideline.

Anyway enough of the QQ. Starting to wonder what our lore path will be to get our Artifact.
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Polihayse
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Polihayse » Sun Aug 09, 2015 1:43 pm

cg1351 wrote:
Polihayse wrote:Feral is not complicated. I don't know why people say that. If anything is driving me away from the spec it is this fact.
You must be new to this game :)
Feral was complex in mop. Since then, combo points are on the player, no more energy pooling, no more trinket snapshotting, and the snapshotting we do have is extremely predictable. The most difficult thing I can think of that is still a thing is target swapping to cast rake. Second most difficult thing is trying to not get sat.

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Minibubble
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Minibubble » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:05 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:Why would daggers improve us?
I dont think it necessarily would improve Ferals but it would give another class the opportunity to use daggers. Daggers, Glaves, Bows looks like the only Weapons that are class exclusive. We cannot see our weapon but dual wield would fit the Feral imo, also a dagger drop wouldnt be useless anymore, if you have no Rogue or if the rogue has the weapon already.
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by aggixx » Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:11 pm

Kojiyama wrote:I'm kinda hesitant about the weapon thing because it seems pretty crazy unfriendly to hybrid classes. Levels up from boss kills? What happens when Feral sucks on a fight and we have to go Balance? Not only do we have to use a crappy weapon but we miss out on a boss kill with our primary one? Yuck.

Arch ring upgrade is bad enough as it is right now.

They really have to commit to not trying to excuse Feral weaknesses with the presence of Balance.
If they learn anything from the ring they would make the artifact points you earn apply to your weapons for every spec. They could still make you do each weapon-specific quest for all of the specs to progress (assuming they aren't gathering quests). That would be a good balance imo.
Minibubble wrote:
Tinderhoof wrote:Why would daggers improve us?
I dont think it necessarily would improve Ferals but it would give another class the opportunity to use daggers. Daggers, Glaves, Bows looks like the only Weapons that are class exclusive. We cannot see our weapon but dual wield would fit the Feral imo, also a dagger drop wouldnt be useless anymore, if you have no Rogue or if the rogue has the weapon already.
Agreed, it doesn't hurt, especially if we can still use Staves and Polearms as well (in the future, since for the time being we'd just be using the artifact). Thematically it makes just as much, if not more, sense as wielding a Staff/Polearm. They have the tech to do it already developed too (monk abilities that use the average of your two weapons) so they would just need to carry that implementation over to the feral abilities.
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Nich » Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:55 am

Tinderhoof wrote:Why would daggers improve us?
Logistically? Someone apart from rogues using agi daggers when it's not set to personal loot.
Thematically? Daggers better approximate small handheld weapons that our paws are meant to be. Moreso than a staff or polearm, anyway. Even better would be agi fist weapons, because *fist weapons*
Personally? It'd open up some more interesting transmog options that don't have to be swapped out for combat.

Nayni wrote:I don't know what rock you've been living under but rogue as a whole is arguably the most viable melee DPS at the moment
Isn't that true of rogues in most expansions, give or take some tweaking?
Sub rogue beeing the best spec when it comes to single target with the option of target swapping easely, having very frequent and very high 10 second burst windows that are very good for priority adds.
Sure, but the rogues I have/do play with still view it as a niche PvP spec. They play Ass for single target and Combat for cleaving. Didn't mean to imply I play with world class rogues there.



Anyway, yeah. Curious how our class hall is going to be laid out. Will we be leading Druids of the Talon?

Also curious if they embrace Moonfare as a valued DoT, or it will still be seen as the poor cousin of BT's buff.

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Felucia
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Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Felucia » Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:33 am

Minibubble wrote:
Terias wrote:Survival hunters getting a spear, anythings possible - but fangs could easily be a single fist weapon too.
Yes thats a great change. Also it would make sense that Ferals could role for Daggers, because only Rogue can and thats why so much loot is wasted.
well considering there will be NO weapon drops in the whole expansion it doesn't really matter who can roll on what weapons.

Lynxx wrote:I would think Demon hunter would be mail. We need a mail tank. I already have enough competition on trinkets, rings, etc. I don't need anymore on armor! LoL!


Also I would be ok with a life size cat tree.
I was hoping for this, too. It does make a LOT more sense if you look at loot distribution.
They said they talked about it but they didn't like it being mail because they want it to be "agile" and it would break the philosophy of the class.

Kinda makes me wonder how hunters can fly 30feet through the air every 10 seconds.

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