7.0 Rumors and discussion

Face-rippin fun.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

User avatar
Lynxx
Honored
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:28 am

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Lynxx » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:03 pm

------Here Lies Multistrike------
---We knew you well---
---Taken so young---
R.I.P
2014-2016



In other news, "Most specs will be overhauled,......some will be renamed."
The looming unknown has begun!
Image

User avatar
aggixx
Exalted
Posts: 2292
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:49 pm
Contact:

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by aggixx » Fri Sep 04, 2015 2:25 pm

teddabear wrote:I leveled a Warrior recently and I thought their toolkit was amazing. Their talent tree and their glyphs are enough to make any Feral either green with envy, red with anger or blue with sadness. Survivability though Feral is definitely better, but Feral gets compared to Rogues and they are much farther ahead of Feral than Feral is ahead of Warriors.
It largely doesn't matter how much better Rogue is than Feral at surviving, both specs can stay alive long after everyone else is dead because they have tools to handle any situation. Warriors mitigation is either less than that of a Feral or Rogue or can only be somewhat comparable once every 3 minutes, and has close to no self healing at all because Enraged Regeneration does almost nothing.

The rest of your post is completely off topic, but sure having talent and glyph choices is better than not having them, that's not what the discussion was about though.
ImageImage

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Fri Sep 04, 2015 7:49 pm

Ferals have quite possibly the best "general" survival toolset of any class in the game right now. If a Feral dies before everyone else, either you or someone else did something terribly wrong. I have absolutely no complaints about our survival.

However, Ferals lack an immunity mechanic and while SI is absolutely amazing for general-case survival, it is not large enough to survive many major mechanics. That is where other classes like Hunters, Mages, and Rogues have significant advantages.

That said, I feel like this is mostly an issue with encounter design and the fact that too many mechanics can (or need to be) 'cheesed' with immunities.

In regard to 7.0, I was a little disappointed to hear about Multistrike disappearing. I don't totally understand that. It is an interesting stat that has a fair bit of potential if you build mechanics around it (like they did with the Multistrike attunement classes.) Versatility is significantly more boring than Multistrike anyway.
Image

User avatar
Minibubble
Honored
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:17 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Minibubble » Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:08 am

Yeah its sad that Multistrike is gone, but also they have said that we will get new secondary stats. Additionally more classes will get a rehaul and some even get their specname changed. I would guess Protection, Restoration and Marksman are likely candidates.
Image

User avatar
Tinderhoof
Exalted
Posts: 2234
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Tinderhoof » Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:44 pm

Minibubble wrote:but also they have said that we will get new secondary stats
I'd actually like a reference on that. I don't recall that being mentioned any place. Also not confident that that will happen.
Kojiyama wrote:In regard to 7.0, I was a little disappointed to hear about Multistrike disappearing. I don't totally understand that. It is an interesting stat that has a fair bit of potential if you build mechanics around it (like they did with the Multistrike attunement classes.) Versatility is significantly more boring than Multistrike anyway.
I disagree. It's a very boring stat that just happens to be better for some classes. As for interesting mechanics there really isn't much. Out of the 9 specs with the multistrike attunement only 3 of them actually have any interaction with multistrike other than "you do more damage" Of those 3 only 2 really do anything. Blood DK's get Runic power on off hand auto attack multi strikes, and Mistweaver monks have a chance for either Soothing Mist, or RSK to not go on cooldown (but not twice in a row). Sub Rogues just have rupture ticks go faster on a multistrike.

So out of 34 specs 2 actually have a reactive mechanic for multistrike. I fail to see how that makes for an interesting stat. Also all of those mechanics can be folded into crit with out any real noticeable change. While Versatility isn't super interesting at least it gave some minor survivability.

User avatar
Minibubble
Honored
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:17 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Minibubble » Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:49 pm

Ok
Tinderhoof wrote:
Minibubble wrote:but also they have said that we will get new secondary stats
I'd actually like a reference on that. I don't recall that being mentioned any place. Also not confident that that will happen.
Yes you are right, did read it wrong. They said they will change some of the current ones. So not new ones but old ones with a probability of new effects. Tweet
Image

User avatar
Tinderhoof
Exalted
Posts: 2234
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Tinderhoof » Sat Sep 05, 2015 1:56 pm

Ya some things will change to accommodate the interactions Multistrike used to do. I wouldn't be shocked if attuned stats went away as well. With just 4 stats, there will be fewer gear choices, and the point of an attuned stat was to help newer players know which stat to gear for.

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Sat Sep 05, 2015 3:54 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:I disagree. It's a very boring stat that just happens to be better for some classes. As for interesting mechanics there really isn't much. Out of the 9 specs with the multistrike attunement only 3 of them actually have any interaction with multistrike other than "you do more damage" Of those 3 only 2 really do anything. Blood DK's get Runic power on off hand auto attack multi strikes, and Mistweaver monks have a chance for either Soothing Mist, or RSK to not go on cooldown (but not twice in a row). Sub Rogues just have rupture ticks go faster on a multistrike.

So out of 34 specs 2 actually have a reactive mechanic for multistrike. I fail to see how that makes for an interesting stat. Also all of those mechanics can be folded into crit with out any real noticeable change. While Versatility isn't super interesting at least it gave some minor survivability.
Lack of utilization doesn't mean it was poor, just means it was underutilized. Lots of classes have 'when you Crit, do blah' mechanics, and there is no reason to think that Multistrike couldn't have the same.

The reason I say it is interesting is because at least it does something direct and noticeable. In fact, it has basically been the only secondary DPS stat since Crit to do so since the start of the game.

'Extra attacks' have always been a popular mechanic (I used to play a Sword Spec Warrior and a Thrash Blade Rogue back when...and Windfury was always an extremely fun and popular mechanic in the past) so Multistrike seems like it has more design potential than Versatility or even older stats like ArP and Hit. It has really been the only secondary stat that has caught my eye mechanically ever outside of Crit itself.

I also disagree with the premise (not that you made, but others have argued) that it was just re-labeled Crit. Multistrike is significantly more damage-smoothing than Crit while still being a discrete event. The two mechanics still feel quite a bit different to me.
Image

User avatar
Tinderhoof
Exalted
Posts: 2234
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Tinderhoof » Sat Sep 05, 2015 9:28 pm

Kojiyama wrote:Lack of utilization doesn't mean it was poor, just means it was underutilized. Lots of classes have 'when you Crit, do blah' mechanics, and there is no reason to think that Multistrike couldn't have the same.
I didn't say the stat was poor. I said it was boring and that it added almost nothing past "I do more passive damage/I have more passive health". The reason you don't want to add "crit like mechanics" to multistrike is because we already have Crit mechanics. Why would you want to make Multistrike more like Crit? Why would a duplication of effort make it more interesting? It just means more work, and more balance headaches when you have 2 stats that act like one another.
Kojiyama wrote:The reason I say it is interesting is because at least it does something direct and noticeable. In fact, it has basically been the only secondary DPS stat since Crit to do so since the start of the game.
I have to be honest I don't see what is so interesting about a few more random small hit damage numbers flying around. I didn't hit any button to make them happen. They just passively show up. Haste as a general stat makes are for more noticeable impact for a lot of classes because it reduces cast time by a noticeable amount. That is far more tactile and interesting to me over just "more numbers on my screen".
Kojiyama wrote:'Extra attacks' have always been a popular mechanic (I used to play a Sword Spec Warrior and a Thrash Blade Rogue back when...and Windfury was always an extremely fun and popular mechanic in the past) so Multistrike seems like it has more design potential than Versatility or even older stats like ArP and Hit. It has really been the only secondary stat that has caught my eye mechanically ever outside of Crit itself.
Having an ability that you hit and gives you extra attacks is actually a mechanic. A stat that is a blanket "All your attacks can do more damage passively at random times" isn't. Knowing when to hit your ability to maximize the possibility to hit again, or harder that is a mechanic. That is totally interesting because it's within our control to feel good about hitting an ability.
Kojiyama wrote:I also disagree with the premise (not that you made, but others have argued) that it was just re-labeled Crit. Multistrike is significantly more damage-smoothing than Crit while still being a discrete event. The two mechanics still feel quite a bit different to me.
If a scrolling battle text can make either stat's results indistinguishable from one another by grouping damage into easier to read bunches of numbers I fail to see how they feel different?

I think stats in general are boring. But I think it's ok that they are boring. We get new armor and they let us hit harder/faster. The tools that they make hit harder and faster are what I think needs to be interesting. I'm all for abilities that may hit a few times more especially if I did something to maximize that potential.

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:46 pm

I dunno, I disagree simply because a lot of those points seem a little nitpicky to me inasmuch as they could be applied to any stat and probably a lot of them more-so than Multistrike specifically.

I just don't quite understand while Multistrike in particular was on the chopping block when there are a lot of things I would say are significantly less interesting floating around in the combat system. Personally, I liked it a lot and it seemed like a relatively successful stat in terms of adding itemization value while being generally well-positioned and balanced in the metagame.

(Also, extra attacks in the past were always completely random and not tied to specific abilities... but that didn't stop them from being both effective and popular with players. There's actually something more tactile to me when I go for a melee attack and my character plays a 'flurry of blows' style of multi-hit animation compared to just a bigger number with a Crit. Heck, I often melee critters when running around just because I think the multi-swing animation looks cool... but maybe that's just me. :))
Image

User avatar
Tinderhoof
Exalted
Posts: 2234
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Tinderhoof » Sun Sep 06, 2015 12:01 am

Kojiyama wrote:I just don't quite understand while Multistrike in particular was on the chopping block when there are a lot of things I would say are significantly less interesting floating around in the combat system.
Cause it was the newest stat with no history, or any deep ties to any specs in the game. The other 3 have been around at least 6+ years and none of them really duplicated each other.

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:24 pm

Pretty sure Multistrike was more popular than Versatility (e.g. the stat that nobody other than PvPers like to see on gear) though.

(Besides, isn't a little self-fulfilling that it was underutilized if Legion has been developed concurrently and they planned on cutting it? For example, anything they would have thought about adding to it later down the line in major patches would have been wasted effort if the stat was being cut. I still think it has plenty of potential and is more fun than a lot of stats. Heck, it's probably more interesting than half the Mastery stats in the game... *cough*Feral*cough*)
Image

User avatar
Lynxx
Honored
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:28 am

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Lynxx » Mon Sep 07, 2015 8:09 pm

The only real "sort-of not passive" use for Multistrike was on a Sub rogue. Blade Twisting really made the spec feel hectic and kept you on your toes as far as using CDs and having to refresh Rupture. Other than that Multistrike really didn't effect any of the toons I play other than "Yay! look at how many times Shred hit!". I kinda wish they would can Vers as well though. I never really liked the idea of Vers anyway. From the way the tweets and things have been sounding, it seems like we will see some changes all around as far as PvE stats and specs are concerned. Also, hunter "deathgrip" is OP, lol.
Image

Mooninites
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat May 18, 2013 3:36 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Mooninites » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:46 pm

I don't really understand the "multistrike is a boring stat" argument. What stat is interactive and fun? Haste is the only one that comes to mind. Is there anything inherently interactive about critical strikes just giving you a bigger number or the fact that most mastery stats are just flat percentage buffs for certain spells? No not really. The difference between multistrike and other stats is how classes interact with them, and really it's blizzards fault for not making more interactions with the stat as opposed to a flaw within the stat itself.

Tinderhoof wrote:
Kojiyama wrote:I just don't quite understand while Multistrike in particular was on the chopping block when there are a lot of things I would say are significantly less interesting floating around in the combat system.
Cause it was the newest stat with no history, or any deep ties to any specs in the game. The other 3 have been around at least 6+ years and none of them really duplicated each other.
That's not really a justification to keep them in the game or keep them the way they are

teddabear
Revered
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:56 am

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by teddabear » Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:51 pm

aggixx wrote:
teddabear wrote:I leveled a Warrior recently and I thought their toolkit was amazing. Their talent tree and their glyphs are enough to make any Feral either green with envy, red with anger or blue with sadness. Survivability though Feral is definitely better, but Feral gets compared to Rogues and they are much farther ahead of Feral than Feral is ahead of Warriors.
It largely doesn't matter how much better Rogue is than Feral at surviving, both specs can stay alive long after everyone else is dead because they have tools to handle any situation. Warriors mitigation is either less than that of a Feral or Rogue or can only be somewhat comparable once every 3 minutes, and has close to no self healing at all because Enraged Regeneration does almost nothing.

The rest of your post is completely off topic, but sure having talent and glyph choices is better than not having them, that's not what the discussion was about though.
Well we're talking about 7.0, Feral glyphs and talents need a huge amount of work for 7.0 There is a difference between being slightly behind and finishing 30 lengths behind Secretariat. I do think it's the Rogue defensives that need addressing though.

User avatar
Tinderhoof
Exalted
Posts: 2234
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Tinderhoof » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:48 am

Mooninites wrote:What stat is interactive and fun?
If you had read my previous posts you would know I said NO stats are fun, and they aren't meant to be "fun". They are an means to an end.
Mooninites wrote:Haste is the only one that comes to mind.
Haste is VERY entrenched with Casters, and some melee for the entire history of the game. It's also a very key type of stat for RPG games which MMO's are based off of.
Mooninites wrote:Is there anything inherently interactive about critical strikes just giving you a bigger number
Do you play a Feral? How does getting extra combo points not interactive? If you get a few Crits those are Shreds you can jump right to a finisher. How is that "not interactive". There are lots of classes which have Crit interaction just like us. Crit's proc abilities and remove cooldowns. It's likely the MOST interactive of all of the stats in the game. Given it's not still a high level of interaction for all classes.
Just like Haste, Crit equally is pretty much a mainstay of every type of RPG and is WAY to ingrained in everything the game does. Removing it would be an untold nightmare.
Mooninites wrote:or the fact that most mastery stats are just flat percentage buffs for certain spells?
No argument here. However because of the amount of work required to remove Mastery from each individual class and replace it and balance it would again be an INSANE amount of work.
Mooninites wrote:The difference between multistrike and other stats is how classes interact with them, and really it's blizzards fault for not making more interactions with the stat as opposed to a flaw within the stat itself.
While they could have spent lots of time duplicating the same interactions that Crit has with lots of classes, it would still be a duplication of work. As it is, 3 specs out of 34 which can be very easily replaced it's truly a no brainer. There is no logical reason to keep Multistrike as a stat when they can spend a lot more time making what should be interesting: IE our abilities and talents.

The thing is arguing about this is moot. The stat is already gone. Just because announced it now doesn't mean it was removed last week. It was a stat that sounded cool but from a mechanical perspective, it wasn't worth the dev time when Crit can take over any "interaction" with minimal work.
Mooninites wrote:That's not really a justification to keep them in the game or keep them the way they are
There will be new masteries, new interactions, but there isn't going to be massive changes. The massive changes will be spec's and talents. That will always be infinitely more interesting than stats will ever be.

User avatar
Tinderhoof
Exalted
Posts: 2234
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Tinderhoof » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:49 am

teddabear wrote: 7.0, Feral glyphs
Don't hold your breath. I doubt we will see any real glyph changes. Talent changes on the other hand I expect we will see some very big changes.

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:11 am

Tinderhoof wrote: The thing is arguing about this is moot. The stat is already gone. Just because announced it now doesn't mean it was removed last week. It was a stat that sounded cool but from a mechanical perspective, it wasn't worth the dev time when Crit can take over any "interaction" with minimal work.
Agree with you to some degree that it's moot, however I still don't agree with this argument. Part of having multiple stats is for the sake of variety--so that classes can have different attunements and fight over different sets of gear. Sure, you can put all the procs on Crit but that just means everyone wants Crit for every spec which is boring from a metagame perspective.

Crit was just historically used because none of the other stats had a discrete combat event associated with them. Multistrike gave them an opportunity to spread the love around since it was a direct combat stat, so it is a shame IMO that it was underutilized.

I also personally feel like Crit being pushed so hard makes Crit events themselves feel less special. Crit rates right now are so high because so many mechanics rely on it that it may as well not be a Crit. When my FBs on a given encounter have ~90% crit rate, you may as well just call non-Crits "weenie strikes" or something, because Crits are the norm.
Image

User avatar
Tinderhoof
Exalted
Posts: 2234
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Tinderhoof » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:17 pm

Kojiyama wrote:I also personally feel like Crit being pushed so hard makes Crit events themselves feel less special. Crit rates right now are so high because so many mechanics rely on it that it may as well not be a Crit. When my FBs on a given encounter have ~90% crit rate, you may as well just call non-Crits "weenie strikes" or something, because Crits are the norm.
If you really feel that way it is clear you aren't really looking closely at your logs. For example last night your average FB Crit rate on Tyrant was 65% over the whole night. Sure you had a really nice pull on the kill which you got 85%. But than again you had several sub 50% crit rate pulls and even one 22% pull.

Same thing for me last night. In the 18 pulls I was in for Archi I had a grand 60% FB crit rate for the night. Our best pull I think I had 74%. My personal worst was a lovely 11% out of 22 hits. While you have better gear than I do (espesially crit), it's not a massive gap.

Even your farm night all the fights together you have a 64% FB crit rate (kills only). Your Iron Reaver kill was 58%. The remainder of your abilites not a single one has a crit rate above 40%. For a final raid tier this is the lowest crit Feral has ever had in the history of the game.

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Kojiyama » Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:49 pm

I think you are being somewhat mislead by the logs due to combat log limitations in regard to the Soul Capacitor absorb mechanic. Crits are not shown for yellow attacks when the Spirit Shift buff is up, so fights with high Soul Capacitor uptime will show as abnormally low Crit% even though it is not correct.

This very much artificially suppresses the logged Crit rates on FB and Shred depending on when the procs occur.

For my Iron Reaver parse, this was definitely a major factor since I had back-to-back on the pull during Time Warp and 5 Soul Capacitor procs in the first ground phase.

My Crit% for FB on that fight without Spirit Shift present was 94.7%. (And I'm pretty sure the one without a Crit was due to a lack of bleed on one of the bombs.)

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yj ... iew=events

Similar for Velhari last night where my crit rate on non-Spirit Shift FBs was 96.2%.

This is a big reason that Skull of War stopped being a strong option despite the available ilevel upgrade in 6.2, as Ferals are already hovering around the Crit soft-cap without a Crit proc trinket.
Image

teddabear
Revered
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:56 am

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by teddabear » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:01 pm

I think Stampeding Roar should definitely be baseline, it's ridiculous to have 0 Raid CD's unless you use a glyph. I would prefer to see Savage Roar have 0 point Savage Roars baseline and get rid of the Savage Roar glyph. That should help with balancing the Incarnation tier as well. Right now I think Feral is in danger of losing Incarnation and having that be another useless tier. Rake could use some better glyphs, either make it cleave or shorten the duration, or possibly 2 mutually exclusive glyphs. Something like Rake hits 3 targets but damage is decreased or Rake ticks every second but you get less ticks.

User avatar
Elamari
Honored
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:18 pm
Contact:

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Elamari » Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:39 pm

teddabear wrote:I think Stampeding Roar should definitely be baseline, it's ridiculous to have 0 Raid CD's unless you use a glyph.
This has been one of my crouches for a long time. The glyph is just taking up a slot where something useful / interesting could be. The 40 yard range should just be default - or at least default for Bear / Cats.

I agree with what Pawkets said about Soul of the Forest. I really like the talent mechanically and thematically. I like the idea of playing around with energy and am really enjoying having 120 energy in this tier. Maybe SotF could also, increase your energy cap to 110 or 120. I'm coming at this from the point of making the choice / throughput between the talents as close as possible, so you can chose based on playstyle and not be at an overwhelming disadvantage.

Not a fan of Force of Nature, having access to it as feral feels weird - its a boomkin spell. Though I don't really have any suggestions of what could go in it's place. Could it be as simple as a flavour change or something that doesn't require AI? I like the choices between a passive, an on use/burst, and a micro managey one.

As far as Incarnation goes, could be it "fixed" by turning numbers rather than a redesign e.g. Shred does 15% damage when stealthed instead of 20% (keep the 20% for PVP)? De-coupling the SR glyph could also help - or making using rake extend SR duration while Inc is up based on how many combo points it generates e.g. 1 CP = 18 secs, but if you crit and generate 2 you get 24 secs. This would help SR uptime, and keep the Inc + SR synergy while making Inc more comparable to SotF.
Cricket? Nobody understands cricket. You have to know what a crumpet is to understand cricket.

File under Feral - http://fileunderferal.wordpress.com/

xfr
Posts: 11
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:43 pm

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by xfr » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:13 pm

As feral we don't care at all about the removal of multistrike but

The reason multistrike is great is because it allows for 2 types of procs based on damage, which opens up different stat builds within the same class.

For instance, as a bear, crit provides more rage while multistrike provides more HP. As a results, some bears are running pure multistrike builds that rely on never using frenzied regen but can achieve huge (1.5M+) health pools. Others are running mastery builds with high crit for damage and 4p18 healing. Because of this, I disagree with those who claim bear is a cookie cutter, shallow tanking class: playing with stats allow for a surprising number of very different playstyles.

Brewmasters similarly have two very different builds where one relies only on crit for elusive brew while the other uses mastery and some multistrike for self healing.

I really like these specs where there are different viable balances beween crit, multi and mastery and I hope whatever replaces MS will still allow this kind of choice. To some extent, even feral have some freedom to balance multistrike and mastery depending on the encounter and role emphasis and I hope this too won't be gone just for the sake of removing all the depth of the game.

teddabear
Revered
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:56 am

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by teddabear » Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:21 am

Tinderhoof wrote:
teddabear wrote: 7.0, Feral glyphs
Don't hold your breath. I doubt we will see any real glyph changes. Talent changes on the other hand I expect we will see some very big changes.
Definitely not holding my breath. Imo WoD got an F- and I haven't heard anything to make me think Legion will be any better. Basically it has just been standard customer service stuff, we're sorry and we understand. They haven't even promised to support the expansion after release. If I had to pick one fix for Feral it would be having Haste effect Bleeds so Feral would not be completely dependent on constant buffs to stay relevant.

User avatar
Polihayse
Revered
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:46 am

Re: 7.0 Rumors and discussion

Post by Polihayse » Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:08 am

The fact that our shapeshifts are Fangs of the First Nightsaber model and the regular bear model probably means they will not make bear form an aoe stance.

Locked