patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

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Ehrenfailed
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patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Ehrenfailed » Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:45 pm

"Thrash in Cat Form now deals 10% more damage.
Rake now deals 20% more damage. In PvP combat, Rake now deals 20% less damage.
Rip now deals 20% more damage. In PvP combat, Rip now deals 20% less damage."


Has anyone theorycrafted a bit yet? Like in statweights of multistrike compared to mastery?

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Amitty
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Amitty » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:05 pm

I knew my daily tweets to @WarcraftDevs "Hello, please take a look at Feral Druid spec" are going to work eventually. :lol:

Nayni
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Nayni » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:14 pm

I haven't really done any math on it yet as I honestly am just done with Feral at this point, but these fixes just look like the little enhance buffs they did a while ago. It's nice but it doesn't solve anything in the grand scheme of things.
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Kojiyama
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Kojiyama » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:18 pm

Will need SimC to be updated with the latest PTR data to really get precise numbers, but it's probably a 6-8% damage increase via napkin math.

Enough to bring us towards the competitive spectrum of single target and helps a bit on cleave for Council but isn't going to be magical or anything. Should be enough to allow us to feel not like dead weight though, which is pretty much all I was hoping for at this point.
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Asashdor
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Asashdor » Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:47 pm

Did some rough experiments with SimCraft and it doesn't seem to change that much. No promise I've modified the spells correctly, but the right numbers have gone up by the expected amount so I'm fairly confident.

For myself (8/13 Heroic, 2p+2p, no Seed) Mastery seems to be identical to Versatility in Single Target but if you have 4p and Seed you get much more energy and thus more FB which in turn means a smaller percentage of damage coming from Rip and Rake (~16% each for my gear vs. ~12% in SimCraft BiS) - while it is a small buff to Mastery, I don't think it's enough to make Mastery any more desireable against a single target.

Starting with two constant targets, Mastery destroys every other stat by a large margin. Using the default SimCraft Mythic BiS gear, Mastery appears to be about 30% stronger than Crit on two targets.
Using the "Beastlord" preset, which simulates 2 different types of adds (Pack Beasts and Spears) and some light movement, it seems that in BiS gear Mastery beats Crit by a small margin while Mastery is much better with my gear (for the same reason as with single target, i.e. moar DoTs).

Overall, I don't think those buffs change very much in regards to our stat priorities.

As I said, I'm not entirely certain everything is correct, but I guess I'll have to wait for Pawkets to confirm or correct my numbers. ;)

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Dysheki » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:07 pm

This isn't really fixing anything. This is similar to what they did earlier in the expansion. Just buff a few things and move along. Mechanically we're still in the same boat as before which has annoyed me the entire expansion. But people said we were great at ST/sustained cleave so it was okay (it wasn't - it was an illusion). Then we lagged behind after mythic HFC was released and our ST/cleave wasn't even great. I lol'ed. Then cried.

But like I tweeted, at least it's something. Even though it's not enough and really, really, really late. The rate at which other classes increase dps will still be greater than a feral's increase in dps as the ring gets larger. This ring idea was just AIDS.

Still baffled it's not hotfixed in and has to wait for a full patch release. This just adds more fuel to my rage.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Kojiyama » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:22 pm

Yeah, not quite sure why they couldn't hotfix the class changes. I'd expect that if they were patching next week but since it's not until the 1st I would have appreciated having some higher DPS for progression next reset. Oh well.

At the very least, it puts a (perhaps temporary, we'll see) halt on my thoughts of potentially swapping to my Mage now that we have Gorefiend out of the way and have a few easy bosses I could get gear on... was very strongly considering it after last night, actually.
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Minibubble
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Minibubble » Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:31 pm

Still it is a big issue with AoE. Single target was not that bad compared to our inability to do AoE damage. 10% on AoE is not enough. I wonder why they don't touch swipe for that matter.
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by msrobinson » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:33 pm

Due to the difficulty of the class, they will continue to ignore the main problems with feral until the next expansion (or never).

The flat damage bonus to bleeds is a band aid fix.

All it does is bring our damage closer in line with the rest of classes on sustained ST and sustain cleave, making us melee affliction locks.

Still doesn't address how poor we perform in AoE or burst scenarios, and still doesn't address how to revamp the playstyle keeping the design goals/successes that feral players enjoy.

We won't see anything meaningful until the next expansion, and even then, I wouldn't expect anything interesting or gamechanging outside of tier bonuses.

Feral will be a broken class, either UP or OP depending on how they decide to tweak the damage ratios of Rip, Rake, FB, and Shred.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by teddabear » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:02 am

It should be roughly a 5.2% increase to your DPS in single target. A little mystified over the AoE buff. I can't help but feel this is something that definitely could have been done over a month ago. At this point it is a bit like fixing your oil leak after the engine is destroyed. I have a gnawing suspicion we will learn this is exactly what has happened in the next expansion.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by aggixx » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:37 am

Simulating the changes I get a 7.25% DPS increase on single target for the BiS profile (swapped Soul Cap for Censer for testing purposes). Probably a larger gain if you don't have a legendary ring since your burst is less of a portion of your DPS.

Vers is still about 10% better than mastery on single target with the Archimonde trinket but thats with a deficiency of vers and a fair bit of mastery. For a more typical set of gear (especially pre HFC characters, or Tanaan characters) mastery would generally be as good or better than versatility, and it should be clearly better if you're not using Seed of Creation.

Mastery is still the best stat at 2+ sustained targets, not much changes there. Using mastery gems/enchants where it makes sense to becomes more important.
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Ferealzzz » Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:07 pm

Nice that buff once progression is done Blizzard is great.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Thandorr » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:03 pm

This buff is nice for those of us who still have a bit of progression left, but for most of those that actually care about this change, it is coming a bit late. Either way, I'll have to see how this plays out before I officially make the change to my rogue.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Kojiyama » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:43 pm

aggixx wrote:Simulating the changes I get a 7.25% DPS increase on single target for the BiS profile (swapped Soul Cap for Censer for testing purposes). Probably a larger gain if you don't have a legendary ring since your burst is less of a portion of your DPS.

Vers is still about 10% better than mastery on single target with the Archimonde trinket but thats with a deficiency of vers and a fair bit of mastery. For a more typical set of gear (especially pre HFC characters, or Tanaan characters) mastery would generally be as good or better than versatility, and it should be clearly better if you're not using Seed of Creation.
Yeah, it's about a 6.9% increase for my gear (721 ilevel) with the legendary ring, Capacitor, and Seed on a Patchwerk sim. On a HecticAddCleave sim with Mirror instead of Seed, it is about a 9% damage increase.

My scale factors for the Patchwerk sim:

Code: Select all

Profile         Agi    AP     Crit  Haste Mastery Mult  Vers  Wdps
EvilTwinPTR     13.23  11.92  8.29  3.79  6.11    7.01  6.48  11.64
Kojiyama_Active 12.20  11.02  7.88  3.80  5.28    6.25  6.05  11.84
Here are my scale factors with Mirror instead of Seed (still on Patchwerk):

Code: Select all

Profile         Agi    AP     Crit  Haste Mastery Mult  Vers  Wdps
EvilTwinPTR     13.24  11.94  8.15  4.02  6.30    6.92  6.41  12.21
Kojiyama_Active 11.89  11.06  7.78  3.73  5.04    6.24  6.00  11.86
Vers is still a bit higher, but I generally err on the side of picking Mastery when items are close since it does so much better in cleave scenarios.

Scale factors for HecticAddCleave w/ Mirror + Capacitor:

Code: Select all

Profile         Agi    AP     Crit  Haste Mastery Mult  Vers  Wdps
EvilTwinPTR     16.73  15.06  9.33  4.68  10.95   8.63  7.69  10.45
Kojiyama_Active 15.21  13.78  8.51  4.45  9.48    7.87  7.21  10.49
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Lynxx
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Lynxx » Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:19 pm

Amitty wrote:I knew my daily tweets to @WarcraftDevs "Hello, please take a look at Feral Druid spec" are going to work eventually. :lol:
Lol, that the first thing I thought. I am still working at leveling a warr, just in case. My rogue just doesnt appeal to me anymore. TBH I really just want Feral to be more well rounded.
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by CowPond » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:18 am

So the 10% thrash, 20% rip, 20% rake buffs come out to the vicinity of an overall 7% increase?

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Tremnen » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:23 am

for single target. More for 2-3 target

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by aggixx » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:36 am

And less for... everything else :P
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Chimmichango » Fri Aug 21, 2015 10:37 am

aggixx wrote:And less for... everything else :P
Yeah...it's depressing. I really love my Feral but I don't feel good playing it right now in HFC.

I'm waiting on what changes might be in store for Legion before deciding on whether to drop my Feral completely.

Ehrenfailed
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Ehrenfailed » Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:22 pm

Chimmichango wrote:
aggixx wrote:And less for... everything else :P
Yeah...it's depressing. I really love my Feral but I don't feel good playing it right now in HFC.

I'm waiting on what changes might be in store for Legion before deciding on whether to drop my Feral completely.
yeah, same here. Not because i do not like being a feral, it just feels odd that blizz tries to fix our mechanics and bad scaling over 2p/4p and somehow late skill buffs.
And I do not think legíon will change this much, they probably dont have enough time to really address all the issues of the classes...but I would be very happy if they could.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Chimmichango » Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:46 pm

Ehrenfailed wrote:
Chimmichango wrote:
aggixx wrote:And less for... everything else :P
Yeah...it's depressing. I really love my Feral but I don't feel good playing it right now in HFC.

I'm waiting on what changes might be in store for Legion before deciding on whether to drop my Feral completely.
yeah, same here. Not because i do not like being a feral, it just feels odd that blizz tries to fix our mechanics and bad scaling over 2p/4p and somehow late skill buffs.
And I do not think legíon will change this much, they probably dont have enough time to really address all the issues of the classes...but I would be very happy if they could.
I think we just got caught up in Blizzard's experiment of specs fitting into niches. They've been hearing about homogenization since Cata and making each spec fit into a niche was their way to address that it seems.
Enhance- AoE kings with sub par ST
Feral- Single target kings with sub par Aoe, etc, etc.

The problem is our ST DPS is an illusion created by two 3 min CD's. The L60 talents were a good place to fill gaps in Ferals kit but we've spent the entire x-pac tied to Incarnation. FoN has the potential to be a nice short CD, burst ability but it just can't compete.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Polihayse » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:57 pm

If enough people do it, is threatening to play a different class an effective way to get us more attention. Cause if the new HD cat model doesn't have a cute pink butt I'm seriously considering rerolling.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Minibubble » Sat Aug 22, 2015 7:25 pm

Polihayse wrote:If enough people do it, is threatening to play a different class an effective way to get us more attention. Cause if the new HD cat model doesn't have a cute pink butt I'm seriously considering rerolling.
We didn't see anything about class changes yet. Lets wait and see. I firmly believe that with the PvE/P dividing we will get some new skills and an updated mechanic.
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Polihayse
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Polihayse » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:04 pm

Of course. Separating pve and pvp will make their jobs much easier. You can expect higher quality gameplay and better balance.

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Lynxx
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Lynxx » Sun Aug 23, 2015 4:22 pm

The PvE/PvP separation is what I am most excited about. I hope they take full advantage of it.
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