patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

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Kojiyama
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Kojiyama » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:38 pm

Same goes for Feral to some degree, though. Looking at the top parses on Gorefiend where someone has like 50% Soul Capacitor uptime is so out of the realm of 'normal' that you can't really use it for broad balancing. However, it is fair to compare apples to apples if you're gonna point at a top 5 Feral parse.

I would argue the exact opposite about the population though. Low population means getting a high ranking (e.g. 95%) is harder because there are fewer 'slots' in each percentile range. I would also argue that there are a higher percentage of 'excellent' Ferals in Mythic raiding than Hunters or Arcane Mages, as the lower-end Ferals would be more likely to be cut from rosters prior to the buff due to being simply noncompetitive. (You could easily see that the drop-off of Ferals on later Mythic encounters was significantly higher than other top-tier classes.)

(Also, if it was easy to get high ranks simply due to lack of competition, there would be a major compression at the top-end and every other raiding Feral would be swapping Rank 1 parses every other day. That doesn't happen, so it's clearly still difficult to get a top-10 parse regardless of the low population.)
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teddabear
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by teddabear » Wed Sep 09, 2015 12:56 am

How many specs are rerolling Feral?
How many Ferals have rerolled as other specs?

That should answer your question.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by illizit » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:14 pm

interesting read.

Alot of people / Druids re rolled feral for BRF but numbers have died down again. The skill level for feral is at it's highest so I feel guilds arent using them as much as the level of play to get the most out of it is fairly minimal at this moment in time.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Polihayse » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:24 am

illizit wrote:interesting read.

Alot of people / Druids re rolled feral for BRF but numbers have died down again. The skill level for feral is at it's highest so I feel guilds arent using them as much as the level of play to get the most out of it is fairly minimal at this moment in time.
Here it is again. Feral is not hard. It's definitely not as hard as it was at least.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by cg1351 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:04 pm

It's definitely nowhere near as hard as it use to be and polyihase you seem to have an issue with people thinking feral requires the most... it still does and probably always will.. at the very tip top parses anyways.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by cansr » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:53 pm

cg1351 wrote:It's definitely nowhere near as hard as it use to be and polyihase you seem to have an issue with people thinking feral requires the most... it still does and probably always will.. at the very tip top parses anyways.

Eh, I'd assume since he is at the top end of parsing at the monent, he has a decent idea. I guess all things considered, it isn't the spec that's hard, if anything we did lose a little bit of snapshotting depth from last tier, since energy is so highly available at times. But honestly, I've been saying this for a little while, feral isn't hard, it's the mastery of the fight and fight length that gives you more dmg. And I'm glad they buffed us via dots, so I don't have to cry -as- much, everytime we get a 5:59 kill or 2:52 etc.
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Bluewulf » Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:47 pm

I still think there is enough decision making when juggling bleeds on multiple targets that make it somewhat difficult compared to other specs. Just a single target is pretty easy though.
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Kojiyama » Thu Sep 10, 2015 2:06 pm

I wouldn't call Feral ridiculously hard or anything (nothing in WoW is, to be honest) but I do think it is significantly more complex than many other specs and has a lot of non-obvious 'gotchas' that experienced Ferals take for granted.

Try playing Frost Mage for a while and you will understand why people view Feral as a difficult spec to play. :)

A few weeks ago we had an officer (an admittedly very good player) jump on someone else's geared Hunter for fun, had never seriously played the class in a raid environment, and still did like 85-90%+ of the normal damage playing on a laptop with no mods and a trackpad... I honestly don't think anyone playing randomly on a Feral would be able to do the same thing. I doubt even I could do the same thing in that situation!
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Minibubble » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:08 pm

Feral is easy because we know how to use Weak Aura, tracking everything and adapt to the fights. Thats not always the case for others. Just think of it, you need to track your debuff and buffs on right top, your energy on left top, your dots and combopoints on target display, while your skills are at the bottom. There is no snapshot tracker in the game and the pandemonium effect nowhere explained or mentioned. You have no track how long your dots will last at the enemy in digits and there is no display which enemy is already dotted. I track everything at the center of my screen and its structured so i have always the knowledge what happens now and more importantly what will happen or run out in a couple of seconds. Imo without addons its hard to be competitive. Thats on of the reason people think Feral is hard. Compared to most other melees its really harder.
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Polihayse » Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:14 pm

Minibubble wrote:Feral is easy because we know how to use Weak Aura, tracking everything and adapt to the fights. Thats not always the case for others. Just think of it, you need to track your debuff and buffs on right top, your energy on left top, your dots and combopoints on target display, while your skills are at the bottom. There is no snapshot tracker in the game and the pandemonium effect nowhere explained or mentioned. You have no track how long your dots will last at the enemy in digits and there is no display which enemy is already dotted. I track everything at the center of my screen and its structured so i have always the knowledge what happens now and more importantly what will happen or run out in a couple of seconds. Imo without addons its hard to be competitive. Thats on of the reason people think Feral is hard. Compared to most other melees its really harder.
Yeah I was just thinking that. If you click your abilities, and don't have ways to consolidate your information so that you can see it all, then it suddenly becomes difficult. Over the years I have refined my playstyle and obtained tools that make playing very easy. The only thing that I find difficult is clicking target health frames, but that is because my mouse hand is very clumsy. If you think about it, most mediocre feral druids have savage roar, rake, rip, shred, and fb on 1-5 and probably click healing touch and thrash or something inefficient.

Unholy dk seems much more difficult than feral when I played it. IMO the hardest thing about feral is finding a raid group.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Elamari » Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:37 pm

Polihayse wrote:Unholy dk seems much more difficult than feral when I played it. IMO the hardest thing about feral is finding a raid group.
"We have too many melee sorry" or "We have to many on Vanq tokens" are the most common I see. Granted I've been lucky and that I've always had a spot (I'd like to think it's because I'm a good player, but who knows).

This leads me into another concern. Demon hunters brings another melee class into the foy. Given that raid comps generally prefer ranged over melee, and given that raid encounter design tends to favour ranged, and demon hunters are going to wear leather; it feels like that agi melee raid spots are going to be super competitive come legion. I think a large part of it boils down to what utility a class brings. Speaking from my personal experience - Battle rezzing and interrupting (Hellfire Citadel? More like Hellfire Interrupt-adel) are the two main ones I've been relied on by my raid teams. And to a lesser extent, Stampeding Roar.

Anyone have some thoughts on this? I'm trying not to be alarmist, but I think it is a legitimate concern worth discussing.
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Polihayse
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Polihayse » Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:32 am

Yeah demon hunters are probably not a good sign for us. I think we should all go over to this League of Angels facebook game. It looks like they have feral druids over there.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by teddabear » Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:25 am

I think there is a high probability that Demon hunters will be much better than Feral. The real question is will they be better than Rogue and I think they probably will.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Minibubble » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:18 am

teddabear wrote:I think there is a high probability that Demon hunters will be much better than Feral. The real question is will they be better than Rogue and I think they probably will.

Objectively? Maybe, but the game will be flooded with bad Demon Hunters that no one wants to risk to take one. Happend with Monk too.
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Polihayse » Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:26 am

Demon hunters specialize in killing demons. It would not make sense for them not to be ridiculously strong. They need to be so that players who take a bit of time to learn (the majority of the wow population) can feel the presence that they have in the new expansion.

I think this is what is going to happen, but I don't think it is necessary. Enough people will be switching to demon hunter because a large majority of the players probably feel like the class they play currently did not get the attention it deserved. I would not be surprised if over 33% of melee next expansion were demon hunters with the 9 melee classes to choose from (including hunter).

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Minibubble » Wed Sep 16, 2015 9:08 pm

After the WoD desaster they keep tight now for weeks. Can't wait until Blizzcon. Who is going by the way?
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by CowPond » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:36 am

Now that its been a bit since the buffs and I've gotten into mythics 5/13, I feel a lot more competitive in raid. I talked to the GM, brought my war to one raid night, and then the buffs were announced. I really didn't want to leave my feral so it was a great reason to give it some more time and I'm glad I did. The buffs are definitely better in action than on paper. That being said though I do think another big part of that is relearning how to play t18 feral with no energy pooling and maximizing soulcap.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by cg1351 » Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:45 am

Just don't understand how people can call things they ain't mastered easy :S Always wondered why the very best players avoided forums like these, i find myself asking this question less and less.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Bluewulf » Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:00 pm

cg1351 wrote:Just don't understand how people can call things they ain't mastered easy :S Always wondered why the very best players avoided forums like these, i find myself asking this question less and less.

What very best players? I would say the very best ferals do use these forums.
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by cg1351 » Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:30 am

Bluewulf wrote:
cg1351 wrote:Just don't understand how people can call things they ain't mastered easy :S Always wondered why the very best players avoided forums like these, i find myself asking this question less and less.

What very best players? I would say the very best ferals do use these forums.
What gave you this impression? Don't get me wrong there are 'some' clearly above average ferals here but not world class.. :roll: I personally come here for the fastest catch up on feral in the relevant patch after long breaks (don't get me wrong i appreciate the work some of you guys do) not because it is made up of the best feral raiders in the game :)

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by aggixx » Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:09 pm

What a pointless discussion. Every english-speaking feral that actually wants to hone their play to the highest level reads these forums, thinking otherwise is pretty ignorant. Maybe they don't read every post, maybe they don't participate in the discussion, but they do use these forums. You simply will not compete on a personal level with other ferals if you're under the foolish assumption that you can figure out how to do everything yourself.

Cut the passive aggressive statements and personal attacks (from both sides, I don't care if it was provoked or not, don't engage in shit flinging) or you may find yourself on a vacation from these forums.

PS: Some less than savory posts were deleted from this discussion.
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Sibylle » Sat Sep 26, 2015 5:28 pm

I definitely feel the buff. For the time being, it's bumped my back up to my usual performance relative to my guild/raid. I no longer feel that whatever I do, I can't win... Long may it last.
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by aggixx » Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:08 pm

Nowhere to go but up in 7.0. Well, hopefully :D
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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by CowPond » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:01 pm

I did 97k on Kilrogg last night without going down, I need to figure a way to get RL to send me to visions. I'm so tired of the feral stigma and I'm about to go postal. Anyone else still dealing with this bs despite proving themselves in raid, time and time again? "oh feral sucks at this or that" but really they know jackS.

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Re: patch 6.2.2 feral buff thoughts?

Post by Eqúinox » Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:26 am

CowPond wrote:I did 97k on Kilrogg last night without going down, I need to figure a way to get RL to send me to visions. I'm so tired of the feral stigma and I'm about to go postal. Anyone else still dealing with this bs despite proving themselves in raid, time and time again? "oh feral sucks at this or that" but really they know jackS.
Not as much as in previous expansions. But yes, their is a caster who thinks he knows everything. He will make little snide comments about how he stomped on dps or how his spec is better than mine at something. Interestingly enough he doesn't utter a word when he's proven wrong. Last week in raid he was trying to be Mr raid leader, went something to the effect of this:

"Why is 1 boomkin in cat form? Oh, he's feral, lol."

Boss died, he got owned on dps and didn't say 1 word. Made me lol to myself.

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