Blizzcon 2015 Discussion

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Tinderhoof
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Blizzcon 2015 Discussion

Post by Tinderhoof » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:10 am

****Changing title to reflect discussion of what was revealed.****
Hey everyone.

I wanted to put a post up here to try and set some expectations about what we are about to see today and make this the official spot to talk about it.

What we should expect to hear today:
- The systems panel today will give an overview of what the dev/designer teams vision is for every spec. There is going to be a huge focus on changing specs to better align with the lore and fantasy surrounding the spec.
- The team feels that some classes have either strayed away from the fantasy they had, or some just never had a clearly defined fantasy to begin with. Going forward the focus will be to make sure that alignment is there and more clearly defined.
- There are going to be some MASSIVE changes to a lot of specs. However they may not change the way you are expecting them too. In a lot of cases (this general not specific to us) the same 4 buttons you press most will not change. Why and when you do use them will likely be the change.
- Talents are going to see a massive overhaul (again no idea on specifics on our spec). Expect there will no longer be a "CC" tier of talent choices. Expect you will have to choose between CC and something else. They want choices to be hard, and meaningful.

What we should NOT expect to hear today:
- Specific spell and talent changes. There are 36 specs (I think) and not nearly enough time to go into specific detail. I expect there will be a tidbit or two for everyone but we won't see all changes they have in mind today.
- Stat aligments on gear (including the artifact weapons).

Please don't freak out though. In the coming days (not weeks) there will be a rush of much more specific information released that will have all those details we are all looking forward too. I am sad to say Druids are going to be the last to see our changes (sorry). Have hope, be patient and after the panels put your feelings down about the information we are going to get today and be ready for the big dump coming soon (not tm cause it's actually happening soon). Have fun today everyone.

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Minibubble » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:04 pm

Today's stream confirmed that we will have the spec information tomorrow for all specs.
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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Sibylle » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:06 pm

First of all, thank you :) It's really great that you're taking the time, whilst at the convention, to type up this info for us.

Secondly: I'm not freaking out or anything. I'm just ever so slightly disappointed at how little time WoW gets this BlizzCon. It's totally understandable, after all they have SIX games to cover now and still onyl two days, but I really felt we would have needed a seperate classes & abilities panel. Everything they said in the last hour was amazing and interesting, but I would have loved to hear a little more about specs and their abilities and changes, too.

Ah well. Let's hope Beta drops soon, without the TM.
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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Sibylle » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:07 pm

Minibubble wrote:Today's stream confirmed that we will have the spec information tomorrow for all specs.
Huh, guess I missed that bit. In that case, ignore this particular part of my post above :)
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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Tinderhoof » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:11 pm

Minibubble wrote:Today's stream confirmed that we will have the spec information tomorrow for all specs.
Unfortunately the last I heard the blogs on class changes will start Sunday, but it will only be a few classes at a time. We are dead last on that list.

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Zstriker » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:14 pm

Tinderhoof wrote: We are dead last on that list.
Hooray!!...not

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by AsgardFM » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:23 pm

Tinderhoof wrote:
Minibubble wrote:Today's stream confirmed that we will have the spec information tomorrow for all specs.
Unfortunately the last I heard the blogs on class changes will start Sunday, but it will only be a few classes at a time. We are dead last on that list.
In honour of your 2000th post on TFD, are you able to share the source of your knowledge? I guess you're not at Blizzard yourself but from the prophetic accuracy of information you appear with it must be someone fairly well involved with the class design team.


As to being the last class, I'll manage. Let's the hype build and we get to see some of the ideas we might be seeing.

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Sibylle » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:35 pm

From Matticus on Twitter (sorry, I don't know how to embed):

https://twitter.com/matticus/status/663135734694617088
Woohoo!

Edit later: To clarify, I know our spec isn't in the best place right now and there are problems. The "woohoo" is relief over the fact that apparently we aren't getting completely redesigned like they did with some other specs (like Survival Hunters).
Last edited by Sibylle on Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Terias » Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:46 pm

https://twitter.com/perculia

Also saw it there. Sounds like there won't be many feral changes and they are removing heals (at least rejuv) from cat form.

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Terias » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:30 pm

http://www.wowhead.com/news=249804/dark ... ss-changes

confirmed

looks like they're dropping all non-core abilities for each spec of druids and you spec into an "affinity" and gain a passive effectiveness in that role (and the abilities that go with it) instead of just getting more powerful spells every 6 minutes

survival hunters are going melee, cats are going ranged, up is down, what is this crazy world

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by ShmooDude » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:59 pm

Terias wrote:http://www.wowhead.com/news=249804/dark ... ss-changes

confirmed

looks like they're dropping all non-core abilities for each spec of druids and you spec into an "affinity" and gain a passive effectiveness in that role (and the abilities that go with it) instead of just getting more powerful spells every 6 minutes

survival hunters are going melee, cats are going ranged, up is down, what is this crazy world
Also, Stampeding Roar is becoming Feral/Guardian only. Moonkins are gaining back innervate. Resto's getting something like HotW, wasn't really clear. Now all druid utility isn't identical which I like.

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Dandeleon » Sat Nov 07, 2015 9:59 pm

Affinity looks great for Guardians and Restos.

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Kraineth » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:14 pm

I like giving Stamp Roar to only bear/cat and I like not getting a major re-work.

My current thought on the affinity is that it's going to become the same thing that HotW became, useless for progression on the DPS specs. My personal hope would be that Affinity: Moonkin gives us starfall in the form of a Finisher but we'll see.

Removing the arbitrary healing tiers and CC tiers should make things interesting, hopefully we get some solid aoe/burst talents.

High hopes for good changes, but it can be easy to get changes like this totally wrong.

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Terias » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:26 pm

I don't think you get starfall as a finisher, the post specifically says that affinity balance gives moonkin form. It also says they are pruning more base druid abilities, so it sounds like you only get heals if you are affinity resto, and only get balance spells in moonkin with that affinity.

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by claircy » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:40 pm

Just me that is super confused about this affinity talent tree thingy? Assuming I'd have my feral artifact, I would then randomly switch to a normal bear/moonkin with this talent and do my role as that instead of a powerful melee cat? Or maybe that is just for guardians, and specifically for dps you don't have to switch forms to have abilities. I'd feel really confused using balance abilities in cat form though, but I don't know

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Kojiyama » Sat Nov 07, 2015 11:21 pm

I suppose Balance/Feral hybrid could be interesting for dealing with problematic fight mechanics (e.g. Mythic Blackhand) although I wonder what the impact of balancing this mechanic will have on the rest of Druid class development.

I'm OK with them stripping out core mechanics at this point, since they eat up a lot of ability/spellbook bandwidth despite providing close to no real value.

The removal of dual spec and moving towards flexible use of all specializations is also pretty relevant for Druids.
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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Kraineth » Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:59 am

Terias wrote: so it sounds like you only get heals if you are affinity resto, and only get balance spells in moonkin with that affinity.
I doubt this, they said no rejuv in cat form, not no rejuv for cat.

Moonkin Affinity cannot just be moonkin form+spells, what is the point of that for a cat? For resto/guardian that is fine, but not balance/feral.

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Terias » Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:22 am

Kraineth wrote:
Terias wrote: so it sounds like you only get heals if you are affinity resto, and only get balance spells in moonkin with that affinity.
I doubt this, they said no rejuv in cat form, not no rejuv for cat.

Moonkin Affinity cannot just be moonkin form+spells, what is the point of that for a cat? For resto/guardian that is fine, but not balance/feral.
I'm just going off of the wowhead post

"Base abilities for Druids are pruned - less core abilities from other three rows. Nobody used these buttons."

I'm assuming they meant roles, not "rows"


Though it says we're keeping predatory swiftness, so maybe we're not losing a few spells.

Moonkin affinity for cat sounds like it'd be very niche - but you aren't choosing between hotw or nv like now, you're choosing which role you want to run secondary with.

This sounds great to me, I haven't felt like this spec had any actual niche or identity since the cat-bear days myself, we've basically been rogue-lite with less/different utility and a worse dps toolkit. With them talking up dps-healing and every healer being able to dps when needed now, I guess they decided that letting druids be a multipurpose class (again) wasn't a bad idea - as long as long as we have to plan it and can only pick one alternate role.

I'm all for that, though it's effectiveness will be determined by how potent those alternate roles are. If we get all the tools we need to be the 3rd tank you only need for 15 seconds every couple minutes (mannoroth) or an effective healer for those fights where 3 healers would suffice - except for that one phase - I'd really like that direction in feral again - even if it's just going bear affinity and picking the boss up when a tank dies and recovering what would have been a wipe. Those are still some of my favorite moments in raiding as a druid.

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Zstriker » Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:01 am

guess an `Affinity talents` are something like HotW, but with more buttons you currently not have are becoming available to you when using talent that talent, think it even 1 talent for Balance 1 for Guardian and 1 Resto in 3 talent tier(HotW split on 3 spec)

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Bluewulf » Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:44 am

I do not think it will be a HotW type thing, more like a... not sure the best word for it, a "perk"? Some cool type of added flavor to our spec that doesn't actually force us out of our cat form. In other words, not a lame feature that forces us to cast spells.
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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Minibubble » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:48 am

Tinderhoof wrote:
Minibubble wrote:Today's stream confirmed that we will have the spec information tomorrow for all specs.
Unfortunately the last I heard the blogs on class changes will start Sunday, but it will only be a few classes at a time. We are dead last on that list.
Link. Sounded like that, but i thing it was meant broader.
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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Terias » Sun Nov 08, 2015 11:19 am

mmo-c summary seems to clarify it further

"The base Druid has less skills from the other three roles, but there is a new talent row that allows you to pick Balance, Feral, Guardian, or Restoration, and get a whole suite of abilities for that role and it makes you actually good at it. You get much more than the watered down version you had before and you get to pick which one you are good at instead of okay at all of them."

seems pretty nice

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Sibylle » Sun Nov 08, 2015 1:59 pm

So in other words, instead of 3 talents per tier for 4 specs, we'll get 3 talents for each spec? Or am I getting this completely wrong?
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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by ShmooDude » Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:03 pm

Sibylle wrote:So in other words, instead of 3 talents per tier for 4 specs, we'll get 3 talents for each spec? Or am I getting this completely wrong?
They said ~2/3 of talents are spec specific, vs now where they're almost all the same regardless of spec (more true for pures than hybrids, but still).

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Re: Blizzcon 2015 "Setting Expectations"

Post by Tinderhoof » Sun Nov 08, 2015 2:29 pm

I have some more stuff to write up, but on my phone at the train station. The movement tier is being broken up and spread out. It will be possible to take all 3 (though you will have to give up a lot).

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