Feral Druid Blog post discussion

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Dysheki
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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Dysheki » Sat Nov 21, 2015 4:07 am

Difficult to say much without seeing things in action - but how in the hell do they remove shred from infected wounds and leave it only on rake???? Rogues just have to auto-attack their way to a slow . . . .

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Tinderhoof
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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Tinderhoof » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:10 am

This is a big improvement. Since you always open with Rake anyway you don't have to spend 70 energy to get a slow on one target.

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aggixx
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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by aggixx » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:14 am

Well, improvement where dispels aren't involved at least. I guess for PvP this could be bad.
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Dashuria
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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Dashuria » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:48 am

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This should be our boomkin form !

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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Monopedia » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:41 am

Dashuria wrote:This should be our boomkin form !
They should have a bear version, then if you take the balance affinity as either feral or guardian this (or the bear version) is what you get!
I expect it is one of the Artifact visuals, of which we have seen very few of its variations. I think there was a Frost that was shown with the artifact preview, a spectral shown at gamescom and a shadow/demonic/bat ear looking cat form also shown at gamescom.

Bear gets the molten looking form, shown with the preview, and also there was a concept image of a "stone form" bear appearance.

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Minibubble
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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Minibubble » Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:26 am

People have said that this form is the Balance Moonkin Form with Feral affinity in Feral Form.
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Dashuria
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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Dashuria » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:44 pm

Ouch. Let's hope moonkin form for ferals won't look same as normal form.. it's ugly imo.. and I think that we will often change our affinities. Maybe even from fight to fight.

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Cantor (Shredable)
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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Cantor (Shredable) » Sat Nov 21, 2015 1:46 pm

Thoughts on the talents (very early build, probably no logner current, yada yada).

15: I am super-excited about Predator, it will be a huge QoL boost on anything with adds that have a short TTL but need to be focussed individually rather than AoEd down, which has traditionally been a very weak part of Feral. If you combine a few of the later talents with this one, we will become exceptionally good at this, which of course was Blizzard's stated intention. Blood Scent is going to be our chosen Patchwerk ability, which also aids in our early-expansion blues when it takes you ages to hit 5CPs; Lunar Insp needs to be balanced better than it is now, and if it is then I suppose it's our go-to for cleave bosses Maidens, Twins etc).

30: not a great deal to say here. If they've swapped WC to only be the Resto version (I think this is probably unlikely), then it's going to lose out to DB or Guttural Roars (If indeed that is the talent). GR will be strong if they've removed the Glyph of Stamp Roar entirely.

60: No changes to abilities in the current tree that I can see. I have always felt that Mighty Bash is competing with AoE CC talents and should really be changed to an AoE 5s stun, akin to Leg Sweep, Remorseless Winter and Cap Totem, but maybe that's just me.

75: Incarnation still lists Rake but I assume this is a tooltip error as it was stated that it won't do that anymore; SotF is unchanged, so single-target will continue to be a toss-up between Soul and Inc, while I guess Bloody Slash is our AoE tool? Doesn't have the bleed prerequisite of Swipe which is nice; does anyone know what the tooltip means when it mentions charges? I assume it fires off 1-3 times on a single button press or something, because it doesn't mention any kind of cooldown or charge refresh rate.

90: interesting choices indeed. JW is going to couple with earlier talents for target swaps, or possibly be the talent of choice in the late expansion when you have enough energy to maintain bleeds that drop off 33% faster. Sabertooth and EG both look interesting - initial feeling is that EG will also be very strong for swaps (essentially 2 free finishers) while ST is again, probably a go-to for single-target/cleave encounters or early expansion raids.

100: I'm going to go ahead and let the theorycrafters dig into these, but having SR compete with BT is an interesting choice. As has already been mentioned, Roar doesn't partner well with JW, but MoC and BT both do. It's going to be exceptionally strange to not juggle BT and SR, but if that's the choice they've made then juggling BT and JW at the same time will be pretty complex I should imagine. I believe that BT will be viewed as the more 'complex' talent over Roar, so is probably going to deliver better damage when used correctly.

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Tinderhoof
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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Tinderhoof » Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:04 pm

The recharge is 30 seconds. Chadd told me right after you and your brother left the Q&A. As the talent replaces swipe and costs 45 energy still its a once per button press kind of deal.

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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Monopedia » Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:34 pm

Minibubble wrote:People have said that this form is the Balance Moonkin Form with Feral affinity in Feral Form.
I have a feeling it could easily be the reverse. Balance druids with the Feral Affinity will get a cat form styled to their more "natural" look.

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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Zokis » Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:54 pm

I won't mind if bloody talons isn't the best.
I equally enjoy and hate that talent. But i find myself rather often fucking my own dps up to save somebody else with my proc, before it's appropriate to use it dps-wise.
Feels good to save them. Highly annoying to ruin your dps that way. Specially because it happens relatively often. Also just to save my own hide sometimes.
Edit:
Overall i think the proc itself is enough to play with. Don't feel like it's a huge loss not to have bloodytalons if i get complete freedom to use it when i please

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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Dandeleon » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:51 pm

About BT vs SR, BT buff 2 skills 30% and SR buff all things 40%. If SR isn't tunned down, why BT can compete with this ?
And about Jagged Wounds, it reduce duration of bleeds ?

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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by aggixx » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:06 pm

Dandeleon wrote:About BT vs SR, BT buff 2 skills 30% and SR buff all things 40%. If SR isn't tunned down, why BT can compete with this ?
Because they aren't tuned yet. Pretend its more like SR 15%, BT 25%.
Dandeleon wrote:And about Jagged Wounds, it reduce duration of bleeds ?
And increases their damage accordingly. It basically allows you to have 150% uptime on your bleeds (50% more damage, 50% more CP/energy consumption).
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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Treeba » Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:07 pm

Zokis wrote:I won't mind if bloody talons isn't the best.
I equally enjoy and hate that talent. But i find myself rather often fucking my own dps up to save somebody else with my proc, before it's appropriate to use it dps-wise.
Feels good to save them. Highly annoying to ruin your dps that way. Specially because it happens relatively often. Also just to save my own hide sometimes.
Edit:
Overall i think the proc itself is enough to play with. Don't feel like it's a huge loss not to have bloodytalons if i get complete freedom to use it when i please

Yeah, I think I've grown tired of the mechanic over the last year or so and I hope that one of the other 2 talents is close enough that I don't have to use BT often. I loved it when it was first introduced in MoP, but it no longer offers a sense of challenge to me as it has become second nature. I find it more of a hindrance now that I often need to sit on my PS charges instead of freely using them on people in need. It's not a huge thing really, but I would personally be happier if the talent was gone or not an automatic pick on most fights.

I hope it's an option since I know many of you love it, but I also don't want to feel like a casual scrub for playing SR instead. Hopefully they get the tuning close.

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Elamari
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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Elamari » Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:15 pm

Just a clarification question regarding the new Mark of the Wild.

"Mark of the Wild: Now Restoration only. Infuse a friendly target with the power of the wild, increasing their Strength, Agility, and Intellect by 5% and their Stamina by 0%. Only one ally may be marked at a time."

When it says "friendly target" and "only one ally may be marked at at time" will a resto druid be able to cast it on themselves? Can anyone clarify or should it be put to the Devs?

Also, does this mean we are going to have another Unholy Frenzy all over again. Arguments over who will be the target, how may resto Druids will a raid need etc... What are peoples thoughts on this?
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Kraineth
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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Kraineth » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:12 pm

Raid buffs are being removed,

MotW could be anything, I wouldn't immediately assume it to be unholy frenzy 2.0, especially considering how incomplete it looks.

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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Istaro » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:44 pm

Dandeleon wrote:About BT vs SR, BT buff 2 skills 30% and SR buff all things 40%. If SR isn't tunned down, why BT can compete with this ?
Aside from the "tuning" answer, remember that BT buffs your biggest hitters (ideally each rake and each finisher) by 30% *for free* (no energy/CP cost, just a GCD which is only a cost when GCD-capped i.e. during Berserk), whereas SR costs both energy and CP.

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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Terias » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:10 am

It was mentioned that the new motw is the resto only single target cooldown/buff in one of the dev talks.

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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Nich » Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:34 am

Slash on a 15 second timer might be ok - using TF to pump out all 3 within 3 GCDs, the wait to re-use it is not tooooo long. But at 30 seconds per charge? Hmmm

Wonder how useful it'll be to snipe kills to proc Predator, tho'.

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Cantor (Shredable)
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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Cantor (Shredable) » Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:46 am

You don't need to snipe kills to proc Predator, just tag the target with a bleed. In its current iteration you'd use it in any fight with adds that die relatively quickly.

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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by AsgardFM » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:21 am

Nich wrote:Slash on a 15 second timer might be ok - using TF to pump out all 3 within 3 GCDs, the wait to re-use it is not tooooo long. But at 30 seconds per charge? Hmmm

Wonder how useful it'll be to snipe kills to proc Predator, tho'.
The MMO calculator (or WoWDB) is actually saying 15 sec cooldown on Bloody Slash. Conflicting information there but early days. Hard to tell which they'll end with.

Aside from Slash I'm a little disappointed with our talents again though. Much like MoP to WoD gave us L100 talents that were nothing exciting (DoC became Blood Talons, LI is just Moonfire, Claws was...a last minute placeholder from passive SR) it looks like WoD to Legion will be doing something similar.

T15 - Predator looks great but Blood Scent may as well read "Gain 10% crit" and LI is both reused and still only Moonfire.
T30 - Unchanged abilities
T45 - New concept, love the idea. Can't help but feel that a lot of it will be gaining back abilities that have been trimmed from base though.
T60 - Unchanged.
T75 - Bloody Slash looks good but SotF and Incarnation are unchanged.
T90 - Sabretooth is Blood in the Water slightly retooled to be less "execute" and more through-fight sustain. Jagged Wounds is a good pace change and will be fairly interesting. Elune's Guidance is new for us but looks like a tweaked rogue talent from a few expansions ago (the name eludes me).
T100 - Savage Roar, baseline to Talent & unchanged. Blood Talons - unchanged. Moment of Clarity is a boost to Omen of Clarity.

We're losing two current baseline abilities (BitW & SR) and gaining them back as talents. Slash & Elune's Guidance are the only new buttons we'll gain from talents, everything else is a passive. While I have no doubt they'll vastly improve on our capabilities and the feel of playing Feral, I feel that we have got the short end of the stick when it comes to talent options. I guess it's now down to Artifacts to provide some new abilities?

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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by kravotir » Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:48 pm

This could be good....

"Reduce the cost of thrash by 20%"
http://beta.wowhead.com/item=132374/essence-accelerant

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Kraineth
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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Kraineth » Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:49 pm

We aren't losing Blood in the Water

And if you look at the majority of classes, they aren't gaining much more than 2-3 new abilities through talents, the majority of all talents are passives that alter the rotation of the spec.

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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by Ancihcaor » Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:25 pm

"Elune's Guidance is new for us but looks like a tweaked rogue talent from a few expansions ago (the name eludes me)."
it's kind of a mix between current rogue's talent http://www.wowhead.com/spell=137619 and Subtlety's http://www.wowhead.com/spell=14183/. I like the 30 yards range and 45s cd. :)

Moment of clarity could potentially waste energy if it procs somewhere above 70 energy, it would take 3gdc to spend the clarity charges and a 4th one to start generating energy again... maybe I am missing something.

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Re: Feral Druid Blog post discussion

Post by AsgardFM » Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:20 pm

Kraineth wrote:We aren't losing Blood in the Water

And if you look at the majority of classes, they aren't gaining much more than 2-3 new abilities through talents, the majority of all talents are passives that alter the rotation of the spec.
Are we not? That makes the talent look even worse then. Extending the duration great for the rest of the fight but it does then mean Sabretooth has no effect for execute range. Maybe enhancing it by providing a damage boost when using Bite on someone <25%?

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