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Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 4:53 am
by Gerrion
MMO - Champion has datamined the talent tree for feral druids.

http://beta.wowdb.com/talent-calculator#u

What are your guy's thoughts?

I am a little disappointed to see Savage Roar become a lvl 100 talent. Goodbye bloodtalons :(

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:10 am
by Tinderhoof
Why? Anyway it's a work in progress and most defiantly not finished yet.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:26 am
by Amitty
I like the idea behind Bloody Slash and Elune's Guidance. Devs are finally introducing some abilities that will help us with both AoE and Single target burst.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:28 am
by Cantor (Shredable)
Gerrion wrote:I am a little disappointed to see Savage Roar become a lvl 100 talent. Goodbye bloodtalons :(
I think it's fairly safe to assume that SR will be tuned down significantly, maybe into the 10-15% range; otherwise you've got a spec dealing 40% less damage than intended for 100 levels, which seems pretty sad. Chances are in terms of pure DPS, you'll see BT > SR > MoC.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:06 am
by Dargaron
I find it odd, but not game-breaking, that the previously staple savage roar is going to be a talentable option. So presumably, this is going to cause a choice for the type of rotation you want? I was thinking of what sort of encounters would want bloodtalons vs savage roar but I'm out of ideas. Bloodtalons if every CP counts. MoC might be good for burst AoE situations.

However, bloody slash. So, so glad to see that. I fail to comprehend why they left feral AoE in its broken state for an entire expansion, but it's good to see it should change in Legion.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:20 pm
by Zstriker
Cantor (Shredable) wrote:
Gerrion wrote:. Chances are in terms of pure DPS, you'll see BT > SR > MoC.
what the fucking point of talent row if everyone will again use only 1 talent, like incarnation in wod and also BT
rather those need to be bake into baseline ability passive, or player should vary them in terms of different boss encounter, or be equal(which they never achive coz not care)
anyway putting those 2 SR and BT into 1 row is dumbdown our spec on 1 rotation ability, which could result in even more wait time during damage dealing

Mod Edit: Keep it reasonable, please, no need for personal attacks.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:36 pm
by Kojiyama
I like MoC conceptually, but I feel like it needs to have a snapshotting damage bonus for it really to be competitive with two other talents that snapshot bleed bonuses over longer durations. Free Shreds will only get you so far against those types of talents and MoC will be very inflexible to tune without something like that to tweak.

I like the current design of the first tier a lot.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:41 pm
by Firnafth
While reading over this carefully is tempting, I'm wary of spending time on something that will change. I worry I'll get down or excited to no purpose. How "correct" do these early dataminings turn out?

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:14 pm
by AsgardFM
Depends what you mean by "correct".

If you logged on to the beta realms right now (though currently impossible to do so) then those abilities would be as stated.

If you mean how likely they are to remain the same until Legion release? Impossible to tell. Some talents have drastically changed before players got to ever use them, some have gone unchanged from the first beta patch to the live game. All we can do is wait and see.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:24 pm
by Saraneth
While I hate the idea of that final talent tree I'm more and more interested in this affinity idea. The idea of mixing feral and Boomkin abilities could be very rewarding. Especially if we have to manage dots/bleeds from both classes and we have to actively switch during fights for optimal dps.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:43 pm
by Tinderhoof
They have said the DPS affinities will have a cool down to prevent them from being rotational.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:49 pm
by Saraneth
Tinderhoof wrote:They have said the DPS affinities will have a cool down to prevent them from being rotational.
Well.....mentally planning how to maintain a Balance and a Feral rotation was fun while it lasted :S

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:45 pm
by Kraineth
Zstriker wrote:
Cantor (Shredable) wrote:
Gerrion wrote:. Chances are in terms of pure DPS, you'll see BT > SR > MoC.
what the fucking point of talent row if everyone will again use only 1 talent, like incarnation in wod and also BT
rather those need to be bake into baseline ability passive, or player should vary them in terms of different boss encounter, or be equal(which they never achive coz not care)
anyway putting those 2 SR and BT into 1 row is dumbdown our spec on 1 rotation ability, which could result in even more wait time during damage dealing
How about we keep this kind of attitude to a minimum here, that is incredibly rude.

You have absolutely no idea how the talents will shake out, so don't pretend to.

All of the talent tiers have meaningful choices based on what is important about a fight. There will always be a "simcraft optimal" talent choice for each row. But with talent's like these, you are much more likely to adapt to each fight unless you have free reign to do nothing but boss damage.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:49 pm
by Terias
Not only that, but even if all of these talents were set in stone and numbers were final - we're missing a pretty significant portion of the picture not having the artifact trees. That's 1-2 on use abilities and an entire tree of passives that could completely change how everything here is viewed.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:17 pm
by teddabear
Still it's pretty clear that Savarage Roar and Blood Talons are mutually exclusive at this point which I do find strange. It has been my impression that most people that want SR also want BT and the other group doesn't want either. It also seems the Moment of Clarity talent is likely to have an energy capping problem if they don't increase the energy cap for that talent.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:01 pm
by Tinderhoof
teddabear wrote:It also seems the Moment of Clarity talent is likely to have an energy capping problem if they don't increase the energy cap for that talent.
Not only will there be a risk of energy capping, there is the problem of OOC's inconsistency. Right now with the 2p we get OOC procs a lot more frequently. This forces us to not pool energy. To play this talent will require an uneasy balance of not pooling to much, but also not energy starving. I agree with you that I don't think it is a very good talent. Because it is a passive it will attract newer players who won't be able to make the most of it. The trap talent.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:50 pm
by Zstriker
Tinderhoof wrote:
teddabear wrote:It also seems the Moment of Clarity talent is likely to have an energy capping problem if they don't increase the energy cap for that talent.
Not only will there be a risk of energy capping, there is the problem of OOC's inconsistency. Right now with the 2p we get OOC procs a lot more frequently. This forces us to not pool energy. To play this talent will require an uneasy balance of not pooling to much, but also not energy starving. I agree with you that I don't think it is a very good talent. Because it is a passive it will attract newer players who won't be able to make the most of it. The trap talent.
yet it still so rng, someties there too much proc, sometimes there is none and you starved
I have a kinda feeling this is going to go into artifact weapon tree, and also some other tier bonuses
waiting paitently for next beta build after thanksgiving with hope, that is going to be much newer one instead curernt alpha from blizzcon

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 6:27 pm
by Sibylle
So what *will* be rotational then? I'm a little scared that we'll be down to a 4-button rotation with SR basically falling by the wayside and other talents being cooldowns rather than rotational.

I'm probably just overlooking something big, as usual :) And yes, I also realise this is early days.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:34 pm
by aggixx
I don't think you're overlooking much, although it is at least 5 buttons on single target if you don't take Moment of Clarity.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:36 pm
by Kojiyama
Let's be honest, though. Savage Roar does not add a lot to our rotation. On average it gets used, what, once a minute on a long fight? It's basically a cooldown ability at this point given the refresh by Incarnation and the long pandemic refresh duration.

Having another button doesn't always mean interesting or a complex addition to our rotation. A short cooldown or some other mechanic has a lot more potential to be interesting than SR and removing button complexity from our rotation (either SR or HT) opens up the potential for something else that might be more engaging. I'm not worried about that at all.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 11:42 pm
by aggixx
It gets used a hell of a lot more if you don't use Glyph of Savage Roar, which is gone in Legion.

And I agree, but there is a correlation. You can't make a 3 or 4 button rotation very compelling without monstrosities of abilities that do several different things or proc different buffs in different situations.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:01 am
by Dysheki
How about datamined legion feral affinities?

loljk

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:19 am
by aggixx
Here I found this in the game files, I think its our artifact:
Image

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:09 am
by Cantor (Shredable)
Heh, +1 there.

Thinking of trying to use SR without the glyph makes me shudder. Having to drop the first 1-2 CPs on it every fight is just endlessly frustrating, I'm certainly hoping that BT comes out ahead.

Re: Datamined Legion Talents

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:18 am
by Sibylle
Hmhm, I don't agree at all that SR is just another button to press. SR requiring Combo Points makes it part of the planning and thinking 30 seconds ahead which make up much of the complexity of the spec. Whether or not it's a particularly compelling ability in itself is a different question, but putting it on the same Tier as Bloodtalons without introducing a new rotational ability to compensate, will further simplify our gameplay. From what I see, at 5 Combo Points we'll either Rip or bite, full stop.