Ferocious Bite

Face-rippin fun.

Moderator: Forum Administrators

Post Reply
User avatar
Polihayse
Revered
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:46 am

Ferocious Bite

Post by Polihayse » Thu Dec 24, 2015 1:42 am

Does anyone here think that Ferocious Bite has bad scaling? Take a look at at these damage breakdowns:

Feral 699 ilvl Normal Imperator Mar'gok 3/23/15
Image

Feral 739 ilvl Mythic Archimonde 12/12/15
Image

Ferocious Bite consumes very valuable resources and can potentially result in a significant dps loss by losing uptime on Savage Roar or Rip. It is a risk. Shouldn't this ability have better scaling?

Fayled
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:21 am

Re: Ferocious Bite

Post by Fayled » Thu Dec 24, 2015 2:27 am

Yeah Ferocious Bite definitely has poor scaling. I guess its due to the nature of having a high critical rate that they think it's good enough value as is. Problem has been in the past if it deals to high base damage it gets too close to Rip and that's a no no.

It would be nice if it got a damage modifier against targets affected by Rip(maybe 50% Crit + 50% Crit Dmg instead of double crit chance), so that it never becomes not important to keep Rip up and gives Ferocious Bite a boost for successfully doing so. Might make our Blood in the Water phase too strong though, but it's not like we're overthrowing the meters right now anyway..

Guess we see what Legion brings when Feral is fully fleshed out with Artifact and all. Hopefully some love is given to Bite.

User avatar
Cantor (Shredable)
Honored
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 9:34 am

Re: Ferocious Bite

Post by Cantor (Shredable) » Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:07 am

Fayled wrote:It would be nice if it got a damage modifier against targets affected by Rip(maybe 50% Crit + 50% Crit Dmg instead of double crit chance), so that it never becomes not important to keep Rip up and gives Ferocious Bite a boost for successfully doing so. Might make our Blood in the Water phase too strong though, but it's not like we're overthrowing the meters right now anyway..
The issue there is that it further buggers us when we have short TTL adds - you don't want to be farting around wasting CPs on Rip purely to buff your Bites. Our DD scaling isn't particularly amazing compared to our bleeds though - Rip and Rake both increased by approx. 150% in those logs, while Shred, autos and Bite were in the region of a mere 60%.

Fayled
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:21 am

Re: Ferocious Bite

Post by Fayled » Sun Dec 27, 2015 5:28 am

As far as I am aware we are still being tied to the single target niche going forward in legion, while we may receive some QoL improvements in that short TTL department with talents etc, further improving our ability to stay dominate on the single target meters is important as well. No good being the king pin of single target in the first tier where weapon damage is king, and then 5th best by the end of the last tier due to poor scaling. Not that increased crit damage on one skill is much scaling help but it does provide some difference when you go from 70% crit rate to 100% via gearing.

Specifically this tier in general, where all that extra energy is great, but would be so much tastier if Bite had that extra scaling juice.

We'll never be good for add switching as a bleeds class, just like affliction isn't etc etc. That's simply to be expected and won't change without a core re-design, which would likely undermine the fantasy of the spec.

ShmooDude
Exalted
Posts: 1080
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 5:51 pm

Re: Ferocious Bite

Post by ShmooDude » Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:46 pm

Fayled wrote:As far as I am aware we are still being tied to the single target niche going forward in legion, while we may receive some QoL improvements in that short TTL department with talents etc, further improving our ability to stay dominate on the single target meters is important as well. No good being the king pin of single target in the first tier where weapon damage is king, and then 5th best by the end of the last tier due to poor scaling. Not that increased crit damage on one skill is much scaling help but it does provide some difference when you go from 70% crit rate to 100% via gearing.

Specifically this tier in general, where all that extra energy is great, but would be so much tastier if Bite had that extra scaling juice.

We'll never be good for add switching as a bleeds class, just like affliction isn't etc etc. That's simply to be expected and won't change without a core re-design, which would likely undermine the fantasy of the spec.
But often times short TTL adds are single target, and we're bad at those... Just look at Archimonde, its almost entirely short TTL single target. Arcane mages are also single target but also are great at short ttl adds. Its just far too narrow a niche to be good at only long living single target.

That said I don't see it changing.


As far as Ferocious Bite goes... Personally I'd make it do more damage if Rip is not on a target (a short TTL add killer in other words), but that's probably just me trying to fix our other problems rather than FB scaling. I think shadow priest's mind spike works (or used to anyhow, idk about now) along these lines. Busty damage that can't co-exist with DoTs.

Kojiyama
Revered
Posts: 478
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:47 pm

Re: Ferocious Bite

Post by Kojiyama » Mon Dec 28, 2015 1:14 am

Could you clarify what you were trying to narrow down in the screenshots of the logs?

Seems to me the relative value of FB is similar or about the same in those logs, with the primary difference being the massive drop in melee damage contribution.
Image

Zstriker
Honored
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:55 pm

Re: Ferocious Bite

Post by Zstriker » Mon Dec 28, 2015 4:30 am

same, I see nothing critical,
both bleeds and FB are got double, yet melee and shred are a bit behind, but that is for sure for PvP vs PvE balance
however, encounters are different, set bonus, trinkets, ring also do affect alot, so compare is really rough, even be incorrect on trying see scaling difference

User avatar
Polihayse
Revered
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:46 am

Re: Ferocious Bite

Post by Polihayse » Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:20 am

I got out dpsed by a guardian druid using heart of the wild on iron reaver last week. Her ferocious bites were hitting so hard. =(

User avatar
Sonick
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 12:22 am
Location: Louisville, KY

Re: Ferocious Bite

Post by Sonick » Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:53 pm

Polihayse wrote:I got out dpsed by a guardian druid using heart of the wild on iron reaver last week. Her ferocious bites were hitting so hard. =(
In all seriousness I watched a guardian druid do 80k a few nights ago in a heroic zakuun pug. He was using heart of the wild and ferocious bite with the soul cap trinket.
Sonick <Ante Meridiem> US - Stormrage
Http://twitch.tv/sonick42
Sonick#1178

User avatar
Tinderhoof
Exalted
Posts: 2234
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:21 pm

Re: Ferocious Bite

Post by Tinderhoof » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:13 pm

Our DD scaling isn't particularly amazing compared to our bleeds though - Rip and Rake both increased by approx. 150% in those logs, while Shred, autos and Bite were in the region of a mere 60%.
You need to also remember that Rip was buffed twice to the tune of 30% between the start of HFC and now.

teddabear
Revered
Posts: 346
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:56 am

Re: Ferocious Bite

Post by teddabear » Fri Jan 01, 2016 2:17 am

Has there been any news on damage breakdown or secondary stat weightings for Legion? If PvP didn't exist what do you think a good ratio of FB damage to Rip damage would be?

User avatar
Polihayse
Revered
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:46 am

Re: Ferocious Bite

Post by Polihayse » Sat Jan 02, 2016 6:34 pm

Isn't feral not playable yet in the alpha?

Bagama
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:26 pm

Re: Ferocious Bite

Post by Bagama » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:49 am

we did not had Soul Condensator in High Maul. Not it is a 40% buff to all damage and rarely you have a chance to Bite during it. However, DoTs ticks 99% of a fight and always during trinket, so avarage damage is higher.

User avatar
Polihayse
Revered
Posts: 459
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:46 am

Re: Ferocious Bite

Post by Polihayse » Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:20 pm

We also didn't have the ring.

Post Reply