Relative Stat Values

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Furial
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Relative Stat Values

Post by Furial » Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:56 am

Hey guys, do we have any information on the RSV for Crit, Mastery, Versatility and Haste?

I've just got a piece with a lot of haste and some crit, plus socket and have another one with crit+mastery, same ilvl.

I can't find any RSV on SimulationCraft either. The only think I could find were these stat weights on Noxxic's website:

Agility [12.08] > Crit [10.58] > Versatility [9.08] > Mastery [7.58] > Haste [6.08]

You can find that here: http://www.noxxic.com/wow/pve/druid/fer ... -priority/

However Versatility > Mastery doesn't sound right.

Do we have more info on this?

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Tinderhoof
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Tinderhoof » Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:31 am

Never look at noxxic ever. I have stat values on the wowhead guide.

Furial
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Furial » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:13 am

Oh I know Tinder, never have, never will. I'll check your guide out, thanks!

Furial
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Furial » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:28 am

Got it,
Agility (1) > Mastery (.64) > Critical Strike (.63) > Versatility (.60) > Haste (.50)


But I'm curious, how did you determine those to be the ideal stat values? As stat weights can vary a bit depending on what a character currently has I'd like to be able to determine my own values every time I need to decide between specific gear pieces.

Saij
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Saij » Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:42 am

Thank you very much for the stat weights ^.^

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Tinderhoof
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Tinderhoof » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:22 am

Those are generalized stats that are the most flexible. The numbers themselves came from Xanzarus.

kerplunk101
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by kerplunk101 » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:03 pm

Are we still trying to go for the 40% crit cap with LI?

ShmooDude
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by ShmooDude » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:03 pm

Furial wrote:Got it,
Agility (1) > Mastery (.64) > Critical Strike (.63) > Versatility (.60) > Haste (.50)
Eh, I've mostly been treating them as equal. Haste's value goes up with more targets. On full AoE (6+ targets), haste/crit become the best stats.

Profile from the ranked sims:
Single Target: Mastery 0.63 > Crit 0.61 > Vers 0.59 > Haste 0.54
Two Target: Mastery 0.68 ~= Crit 0.67 ~= Haste 0.67 > Vers 0.58
3 adds every 25 secs: Mastery 0.66 > Crit 0.64 > Haste 0.60 ~= Vers 0.59
Hecitc Add Cleave: Haste 0.80 > Crit 0.70 > Vers 0.63 > Mastery 0.55

Same profile but with completely balanced secondaries (4190 each):
Single Target: Mastery 0.66 > Crit 0.64 > Vers 0.57 > Haste 0.51
Two Target: Crit 0.71 ~= Mastery 0.70 ~= Haste 0.69 > Vers 0.56
3 adds every 25 secs: Mastery 0.66 > Crit 0.64 > Haste 0.57 ~= Vers 0.56
Hecitc Add Cleave: Haste 0.78 > Crit 0.76 > Vers 0.59 > Mastery 0.56

Balanced secondary profile but with no trinkets use/procs:
Single Target: Mastery 0.62 > Crit 0.59 > Vers 0.53 > Haste 0.45
Two Target: Crit 0.71 > Mastery 0.67 > Haste 0.60 > Vers 0.50
3 adds every 25 secs: Mastery 0.66 > Crit 0.64 > Haste 0.60 ~= Vers 0.59
Hecitc Add Cleave: Haste 0.73 > Crit 0.70 > Vers 0.63 > Mastery 0.55

I also wouldn't be surprised if haste's value increases with imperfect play (ie not using the right abilities at the right times). Versatility is always one of the last two, so perhaps a bit lower prio on it but unless I'm comparing something of the same ilvl it doesn't really matter.

Granted all that was with SR, SotF is technically better in high aoe situation so it'd largely depend on the encounter specifics.

TLDR: I use Mastery = Crit = Haste > versatility.

Beatrix
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Beatrix » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:12 am

Would anyone have a Pawn import string handy?

Monopedia
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Monopedia » Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:29 pm

ShmooDude wrote:TLDR: I use Mastery = Crit = Haste > versatility.
This is what I have also been doing, not that rng agrees with it and likes to throw versatility at me every chance it gets.

Furial
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Furial » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:56 pm

I had forgotten I could get the stat weights by enabling the Scale option in Simulationcraft.

I'm now getting Mastery > Crit = Versatility > Haste

Relative Stat Values:
Mastery: 0.63
Versatility: 0.60
Crit: 0.60
Haste: 0.47

So, for me, avoid Haste like the plague and everything else is up to ilvl alone. I'm just holding off on those Ferocious Bites until I can get a comfortable amount of crit.

ShmooDude
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by ShmooDude » Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:41 pm

Your stat priorities will change depending on your gear and type of encounter (for which you might be changing talents).

If you want to know which piece is better, you pretty much just have to sim the two pieces against each other. Though for non-trinkets, if they're the same ilvl you'll have to run probably a pretty precise sim to know for sure and that'll take forever.

T19P with no trinkets and equalized stats (4190 Crit/Haste/Mastery/Vers, 870 Fangs):

LI/SR/JW/BT -
Single Target (: Mastery 0.59 > Crit 0.56 > Vers 0.49 > Haste 0.45
Two Target: Mastery 0.63 ~= Crit 0.62 > Haste 0.59 > Vers 0.50
Three Target: Crit 0.66 > Mastery 0.64 > Haste 0.61 > Vers 0.48
Hecitc Add Cleave: Haste 0.69 ~= Crit 0.68 > Vers 0.54 > Mastery 0.50
Full AoE (6 targets): Crit 0.76 > Haste 0.71 > Vers 0.58 > Mastery 0.42 (no Rake/Moonfire since Swipe surpasses it at 6 targets)

BS/SR/JW/BT -
Single Target: Mastery 0.64 > Crit 0.54 > Vers 0.51 > Haste 0.37
Two Target: Mastery 0.71 > Crit 0.62 > Haste 0.60 > Vers 0.49
Three Target: Mastery 0.71 ~= Crit 0.70 > Haste 0.54 > Vers 0.50
Hecitc Add Cleave: Haste 0.65 > Crit 0.58 > Vers 0.54 ~= Mastery 0.53
Full AoE (6 targets): Haste 0.72 > Crit 0.61 > Vers 0.57 > Mastery 0.43

BS/SR/JW/BS -
Three Target: Mastery 0.65 > Haste 0.60 > Crit 0.52 > Vers 0.49 (is less DPS than LI/BT 3 target but here for illustrative purposes)
Hectic Add Cleave: Haste 0.64 > Mastery 0.59 > Crit 0.53 ~= Vers 0.52 (slightly better than LI/BT, but within a percent or two)
Full AoE (6 targets): Haste 0.83 ~= Mastery 0.82 > Crit 0.59 > Vers 0.59


Anyhow, point is, the "best" stat depends on the situation, and they pretty much all trade places for "best" with the exception of versatility.

I personally use:

Agi - 1
Mastery - 0.65
Crit - 0.65
Haste - 0.65
Vers - 0.55 (unless I have almost no versatility, I try to keep at least 1k when possible).

Copy/pasted from my post in another stat priority thread.
Furial wrote:So, for me, avoid Haste like the plague and everything else is up to ilvl alone. I'm just holding off on those Ferocious Bites until I can get a comfortable amount of crit.
I wouldn't personally, that overly focuses on single target, but its up to each person how exactly they want to take the stat prios. The only stat that reliably stays in the bottom 2 in all situations is Versatility. All my sims above were on completely "balanced" secondaries (ie same value in each). If you completely ignored haste, its value would be higher than those above.

Saij
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Saij » Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:44 pm

I'm using the stat prios from the wowhead guide.

http://www.wowhead.com/guides/classes/druid/feral/gear


Agility (1) > Mastery (.64) > Critical Strike (.63) > Versatility (.60) > Haste (.50)

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Tinderhoof
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Tinderhoof » Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:18 pm

Those are again a generalized "all round" weights. Just because Haste is last doesn't mean we avoid it like the plague. It's not like it used to be. You should use sims to see what the difference is between pieces, not to say "this stat is best, stack it".

Now Haste on more targets gets better (noticeably) only when using BLS (cause haste makes its cooldown less).

Saij
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Saij » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:31 am

I know.
But first I prefer Crit. At the current situation I take every item which seems to be better ^.^

Burntmoose
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Burntmoose » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:08 pm

Here is my pawn string I use. IDK how to cap it at 40% crit but once wowhead drops their weights pawn will update.

( Pawn: v1: "PvE-Druid-Feral-Noxxic": Agility=12.07, HasteRating=6.07, MasteryRating=9.07, Versatility=7.57, CritRating=10.57 )

ShmooDude
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by ShmooDude » Sun Sep 18, 2016 12:21 am

*sigh* I wonder how long before people stop mentioning the 40% crit cap.

There is no 40% crit cap anymore, it was only ever a thing because of Incarnation + Blood Scent + Class Trinket (for insane Incarnation duration)

(40% Crit + 10% Blood Scent) * 2 Incarnation = 100% crit chance.

There is still a soft crit cap when you take Incarnation, but its not likely to significantly decrease crit's value (it will some, but not to the same extent as the prepatch).

Furial
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Furial » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:03 pm

I think "avoid it like the plague" was a poor choice of words. Considering there's no Patchwork fights in Emerald Nightmare, I think I'll keep it simple with a similar ratio between Crit, Mastery and Haste like Shmoo suggested.

Ayleena
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Re: Relative Stat Values

Post by Ayleena » Wed Sep 28, 2016 5:56 pm

I mentioned this in another thread, but I was wondering if the sims are giving us the relative stat value of weapon dps?

This could be important for choosing and prioritizing relics.

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