Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

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Choppy
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Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Choppy » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:37 am

Does anyone else seem to have a problem competing at the M+ 10-15 range as a feral druid? The group I run with has completed a 10+ in time, but we seem to be struggling with reaching the time limit for anything higher because feral druid AoE is not only sub par, it's downright laughable. I've tried switching around talents and have the Shadow Thrash golden trait (the biggest piece of shit trait in the game), but nothing seems to provide an overall boost to dps without a tradeoff. I would really like to keep running as a feral druid, but at this point, it's looking like I'm going to have to switch to guardian and my dk tank is going to have to go unholy. And if you have seen decent progress in the higher tier mythics, any advice you can give?

Nich
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Nich » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:54 am

The highest I've DPS'd is a 6, and the highest I've tanked is a 7.

I haven't found my DPS lacking that much compared to the rest of the group, but I'm currently split on whether to focus AP into feral for swipe boost, or guardian to try and get more than one gold trait.

additional:

I find legendary wrists mean I hit thrash more than just refreshing the dot on trash - any time I notice an OOC proc in time.

My thinking is that BT and SR are buffing my AOE quite well - and if i"m hitting beserk a lot on trash, I get the most out of the scent of blood trait, which I worry that taking BS ignores a bit.

Only DPS'd a 6, because the group as a whole is a bit unstable.
Last edited by Nich on Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Chuvisko
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Chuvisko » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:06 am

I've been playing M+ only as Guardian. Ferals lack the AoE to shoot for 3 chests on lower levels, and although fare better on higher levels, are still behind most classes. There might be some adjustments to our gameplay on dungeons that I'm missing here (and some AoE weapon traits), but so far instead of being a subpar dps for M+ I choose to be the tank with the best AoE for it.
Last edited by Chuvisko on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Choppy
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Choppy » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:21 am

Chuvisko wrote:I've been playing M+ only as Guardian. Ferals lack the AoE to shoot for 3 chests on lower levels, and although fare better on higher levels, are still behind most classes. There might be some adjustments to our gameplay on dungeons that I'm missing here (and some AoE weapon traits), but so far instead of being a supbar dps for M+ I choose to be the tank with the best AoE for it.
I've tried most talent combinations. Predator is good, not great, for mid and lower level M+, as things die relatively easily and you can almost keep a tiger's fury buff up the whole time, but then trade off single target boss damage. On higher levels, Predator is terrible because nothing dies nearly as fast and it's like not having a tier 1 talent trait at all. Brutal slash is just about worthless, and the SR tier does not offer up better options for aoe trash packs.

It's a shame that mythic+ dungeons are a huge part of the content and feral druids are garbage at killing trash mobs when it is most arguably the hardest part of these dungeons.

Moonbomb
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Moonbomb » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:04 pm

This is only anecdotal but I know we an provide some serious single target damage and in the higher mythics boss health gets super high. I think the groups usually bring people for single target and people for AoE. Rarely does one class bring the best in both.

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Chuvisko
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Chuvisko » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:25 pm

Moonbomb wrote:This is only anecdotal but I know we an provide some serious single target damage and in the higher mythics boss health gets super high. I think the groups usually bring people for single target and people for AoE. Rarely does one class bring the best in both.
The problem with this is we're not as far ahead in ST damage as we are behind in AoE, and M+ is 90% AoE pulls. But, yes... groups can lack different things and if your group of friends is particularly lacking in ST we can fill this role pretty well.

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Setah
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Setah » Tue Oct 11, 2016 12:47 pm

I've DPSed in up to a +6 in a lower-geared group (we're only raiding normal mode EN atm), so we're lucky to get 2 chests. I've found myself fairly competitive so far, but trash pulls can be rather frustrating at times for sure. I just recently picked up the +100 energy legendary ring, but before I had a legendary, I found LI/SotF/JW/BT to be the best combo overall. This let me Swipe/Thrash more on trash while not nuking my boss damage too much. With the legendary, I've found I've been able to play with LI/SR/JW/BT full time, even for mythics, but some pulls are still a little frustrating depending on crit procs.

The lack of reliable AoE can be frustrating for sure, especially after seeing some of the AoE numbers other classes are pulling, but remember in the higher mythics, bosses don't instantly dissolve, so our single target damage is actually fairly useful. That's what I keep telling myself anyway, haha. For trash, I try and focus on priority targets, putting up bleeds on at least 2 targets, interrupting, and adding in AoE when I can. It's certainly not spectacular, and I worry about what will happen once my group starts pushing for 3 chests consistently, but for now it sorta works.

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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by ShmooDude » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:05 pm

I've found Brutal Slash to be amazing for higher level mythics. You tend not to overpull there so you're talking about 3-5 targets generally. At that level, you're tab dotting anyhow so the loss of swipe is not really felt. There's also the fact that many of the bosses have adds to kill so even though your single target takes a bit of a hit, its only felt on true single target bosses and even then its only about a 15% loss.

I've been going Blood Scent, Savage Roar, Jagged Wounds and Brutal Slash and can keep up or beat with most players I've grouped with for overall damage on the whole dungeon. That was with only 1 out of 3 in the swipe talent. With LI/BT I was maybe half of a fire mage's damage. Now I usually do ~90% his damage.

Are we the best? Nah, but we're viable. I suppose if you're making giant pulls at higher mythics then we will fall behind, but if you're pulling one (or two small) trash pack at a time, I've found BS to be great.

EDIT: Haven't done a 10 yet, but have a 9.

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Chuvisko
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Chuvisko » Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:06 pm

Since they are testing some variety with affixes, I wish they did something the opposite of Teeming, "Titanic" or something, where there were half the amount of adds but they were twice as strong and unstunable, just so single target damage would be king on thrash on some weeks for a change...

Kittyhype
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Kittyhype » Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:12 am

I dont know whats the issue here,
Ive completed 10+ this week and last week, too
If we pull a big pack ill swap to my shaddowwave trinket and for the bosses or single to my WQ trinkets
In my group we have a Windwalkermonk so he does the aoe dmg and my job is the singletarget dmg to bosses etc and it works really well
And we got a battlerez so a feral is a good choise
Another good thing is the 10m rangemeleehits so the most encounter can be played really well
Im happy in theM+ dungeons

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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by ShmooDude » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:47 pm

Kittyhype wrote:I dont know whats the issue here,
Ive completed 10+ this week and last week, too
If we pull a big pack ill swap to my shaddowwave trinket and for the bosses or single to my WQ trinkets
In my group we have a Windwalkermonk so he does the aoe dmg and my job is the singletarget dmg to bosses etc and it works really well
And we got a battlerez so a feral is a good choise
Another good thing is the 10m rangemeleehits so the most encounter can be played really well
Im happy in theM+ dungeons
This week, did you double tank? (or are you EU and talking about the week just ended) Necrotic is a pain.

Kittyhype
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Kittyhype » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:54 am

Yes sry i forgot im on EU , now is the new week but the week before we had the buff when a mob die he buffs his members, overflowing (which was a pain in the ass for our healpal) and 40% boss life & 20% dmg we done hals of valor in 1:30h
The week before we had EoA +10 with necrotic raging and the trash did more dmg and had more life.

Our setup:
tank DK
Heal pal
WW monk
feraldrood
Firemage

We dont clear the +10 dungeons in time, EoA we done in 53min Halls of Valor we done in 1,5h, but it worked well this week we are aiming for higher +

ShmooDude
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by ShmooDude » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:37 am

Yeah, gonna be doing my first +10 this week. Halls of Valor w/ Raging, Necrotic, Fortified. Should be fun.

Gonna be Prot Warrior, Fire Mage, Ret Paladin, Feral Druid and Resto Druid.

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Tinderhoof
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Tinderhoof » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:52 pm

I hate that place on 5+. The mobs that do the stun shoot you with lighting bolts while you are stunned. The tank has to be good with stuns when people get stunned.

Kittyhype
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Kittyhype » Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:16 am

The hardest part of the Halls was the second boss because of the 40% more life and 20% more dmg our heal has really much to handle with even because of the overflowing affix so he have to top us really slowly not with his big crits but we done it:p

Madsun
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Madsun » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:52 am

Moonbomb wrote:This is only anecdotal but I know we an provide some serious single target damage and in the higher mythics boss health gets super high. I think the groups usually bring people for single target and people for AoE. Rarely does one class bring the best in both.
I've had no problem keeping up with +5/6 but did a +9 today and we just don't have enough burst on bosses I was doing about 280k and that was too low. The bosses even with all that added health don't last long enough for the bursty classes to drop off and out dots overtake them.
Adds.. may as well just use multi dots and let the aoe classes handle it.
Brutal Slash is incredible, possibly the strongest burst aoe there is .. for 3 seconds.
I don't feel viable at all in anything above 6.

Terias
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Terias » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:10 pm

Done a bunch of mythics up to 12ish or so now (including something like 100+ maw of souls +6 runs).

My opinion is that feral has no place in 5 mans right now, at any level. Now to be clear, that doesn't mean you can't do them, and that you'll never do +15, but you will clearly be carried by your group when you do. We were carrying people with almost no dps up to 9's and 10's (well, not on necrotic, but other affixes), and with good groups almost anything is doable.

The unfortunate fact is, other classes bring more utility, more/close enough single target, and more multi target damage. They are better in every way.

Hunters and Mages for instance bring more st - their cd's are up more often - they are ranged - and they bring more utility by far.

Warlocks bring less but still very high damage and aoe stuns.

Other melee, like monks, bring better or close enough st, some of the best multitarget, and aoe stuns. This is pretty key in most dungeons since melee's level of worth revolves around their utility (aoe stuns being amazing) - skittish for instance makes running with melee at all a huge hassle.

The good news is, you can always go guardian which is in one of the best spots right now for tanks.

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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by ShmooDude » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:03 pm

@Terias What's your thought on Brutal Slash? Have you tried it in mythics yet?

I've found it brings my overall damage up to par if pulls aren't super large. Though what you said about utility is pretty much on the nose.

Terias
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Terias » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:49 am

Admittedly, I haven't done a ton of runs with brutal slash, that said:

For farm, one of the best zones for brutal slash use is maw of souls, where you can do a 20+ mob pull (+boss), then a 14 mob pull after, both with full charges, then you'll be able to use all the charges on a boss and have them up in time for a 9+ mob pull right before helya.

I still think it's pretty break-even when you consider how much single target you're losing out on in order to do that. Our mages and hunters regularly beat me in st and aoe throughout the zone without such a trade-off. To put it in perspective, ST spec'd our holy paladin does about 80% of my damage on bosses, and he beats me on them if I go brutal slash.

Other zones are worse, and higher difficulties where you can't mass pull it favors bleed cleave even more.

I would recommend experimenting with it though, I haven't maxed out the swipe trait yet (2 more levels), and it could overtake bleed cleave once you put some investment into the traits and talent properly.

I've been able to sustain about 1m dps using swipe/thrash at their current level on mass aoe pulls like the first maw pull, which isn't quite the 1.5m hunters and mages pull, but it's better than I expected. I also find thrash makes up a minuscule amount of my damage in those situations, and shadowthrash is worthless. Most of my shadow thrashes don't land in the aoe pile as I tend to die when I jump in for thrashes in hopes the shadowthrash will drop in a good location, not sure it's worth the risk considering it rarely drops anyway.

Nich
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Nich » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:27 am

Of the cats that are doing 10-15+ dungeons, have you had spriests in them? Trying to get my head around how they become viable when mindsear is awful damage and their dots have quite short lengths - and yet we somehow aren't - when their main utility is probably an aoe stun.

Ghrell
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Ghrell » Mon Oct 17, 2016 2:59 pm

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20749756730

Everything is fine nothing to see here.

Also specifically from this thread: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topi ... =2#post-23

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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Cantor (Shredable) » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:51 pm

Nich wrote:Of the cats that are doing 10-15+ dungeons, have you had spriests in them? Trying to get my head around how they become viable when mindsear is awful damage and their dots have quite short lengths - and yet we somehow aren't - when their main utility is probably an aoe stun.
AoE stun is a powerful draw, but also they're not an energy class, so multi-dotting is much easier - for us, you start off cycling Rakes and if you're using Savage Roar then by the time you get to the fourth target you're out of energy; your first Rake has nearly expired; and SR needs another 40 energy dumped into it unless your first Rake crit.

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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Sweetdeal » Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:30 am

my +10 run I also did with Brutal Slash, it depend on your group. Sometimes I also do the Single Target and we have Hunters or Mage for Single Target burst.

When the NEcro Debuff is up, I go for Guardian AFfi, so I can taunt in if needed, while our Warrior / Deamon Hunter Kite with Jumps.

Mathoran
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Mathoran » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:07 pm

Ive gotten up to a Mythic +13 done this week. Always lower dps than the mage/rogue that carried me this far. Just got replaced in my group that i've been running with since the start by an enhance shaman. good times. They promised to carry me to my 15 achieve later on.

Terias
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Re: Feral Druid in Mythic+ 10-15

Post by Terias » Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:13 pm

Went tank for my realm first +15, I don't think we could have done it within the time limit with a feral. This weeks affixes aren't especially bad for melee, but meeting dps checks on 15 timers is very difficult with bolstering, which means bringing an under-performing spec is out of the question.

Neltharion's lair was a perfect run, zero mistakes, and we ended with less than 20 seconds to spare, even with some strat improvements over other people we watched do it.

Melee is also a huge liability in some zones. In Nelths lair ranged can be out of the scorpions and pelters range, which made it so our paladin only had to heal the tank on those notoriously difficult packs.

Our BRH +14 strategies relied on double or triple trash pack pulls that would have wiped us without the required 6-8 target cleave. We may have been able to make this with a feral, but I'm not sure. It's really hard to tell how much mage/marks/affliction cleave carried us.

If you are dead-set on going feral for your mythic 15+, tyrannical might be your best bet. At the health increase of 15, boss time in nelth's lair was over half our total time spent in the instance (5+ minute fights), which is a lot of time spent doing st damage.

Raging/Volcanic/Tyrannical or Sanguine/Overflowing/Tyrannical might be our most favorable. Also, feral healing doesn't overflow, which was pretty useful when I was trying as feral because holy paladins don't actually have a way to top people off without overflowing them.

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