Clutch feels weird

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Batlecruiser
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Clutch feels weird

Post by Batlecruiser » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:16 am

I just got my fourth legendary "The Wildshaper's Clutch" and I was really happy about it, but that changed very quickly.
Previously I used +100 energy ring & waist, but now I am going with hands + waist and it just feels horrible to play..
CP generation is pretty random, pooling at 3-4 CPs does not always work as expected and using Blood Scent instead Moonfire is weird, too (since I played the whole addon with MF).
I just dropped from 500k to 460k DPS on Guarm (M), I guess I have to get used to it, but actually I can not see any improvements or dramatic fails in my gameplay/rotation.
Or maybe ring + clutch would be a better choice (for better pooling), but waists are BiS right?

Whats your experience / opinion about "The Wildshaper's Clutch"?

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Qpa
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Qpa » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:45 am

Sorry but maybe I missed something. But why should the Waist be BiS?

The frist 90% are gone in like a second. Do you benefit that much from the 30% + while above 90%? (talking about guarm fight with Hero/BL on pull)

Imho -> Hands/Feet's followed by the ring and with Nighthold the Wrists could be very good aswell.

For the other part i don't have the hands and can't say anything about it.

Batlecruiser
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Batlecruiser » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:17 am

Qpa wrote:Sorry but maybe I missed something. But why should the Waist be BiS?.
Simcraft told me that.

Sharpend
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Sharpend » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:30 pm

Why playing cinidaria or gloves instead of chatoyant signet ? Dont believe simcraft at all for legendaries, i sim higher with 865 crit/vers ring than with chatoyant signet, but the ring leg is like a 5-10% dps increase. I am looking at some of your logs your maybe losing too much cps playing gloves : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Hx ... &spell=104 just train more with

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Cantor (Shredable)
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Cantor (Shredable) » Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:11 pm

The ring and belt are better than the gloves for single target; the gloves will pull ahead on 2+ targets (I believe). On 2+ sustained targets, ring + gloves; on any fight with a boss + adds, belt + gloves.

cg1351
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by cg1351 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:33 pm

Cantor (Shredable) wrote:The ring and belt are better than the gloves for single target; the gloves will pull ahead on 2+ targets (I believe). On 2+ sustained targets, ring + gloves; on any fight with a boss + adds, belt + gloves.
Where on earth are you getting this from? How would a ring that allows literally just a few extra shreds over the course of an entire fight be a dps gain over the gloves?

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Qpa
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Qpa » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:31 am

Do not underestimate the ring.

- While in the opener and after Berserk you have so much more energy to spend
- you will not engergy cap with subsequent OoC procs etc
- you will not cap energy if you can't hit stuff

e.g.
Guarm Trample,
Spider Boss while switching the plattform
Dragons if you have to run from portal to portal
Xavius after you get out of the dream
Ursoc if you have to run out with a debuff

on all these occasions you will start over with ~100-200 energy.

The most important thing is that you can pool energy like crazy to have a higher procc chance on shadow rip.

On bosses with pull heroism/bloodlust and without any adds that are worth considering switching to it i would ditch the belt and go for the ring.

cg1351
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by cg1351 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:29 pm

No.

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WhyteWidow
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by WhyteWidow » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:27 pm

Ring is our second best legendary by a pretty large margin.

cg1351
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by cg1351 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:54 pm

what are you basing this on? your hatred for the normal opener or your inability to control your energy before tigers fury? explain to me how the ring is better than the waist, it's literally just an extra 100 energy over the course of the entire fight....

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Ravajin
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Ravajin » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:25 am

cg1351 wrote:explain to me how the ring is better than the waist, it's literally just an extra 100 energy over the course of the entire fight....
I can see why the ring would be preferred over gloves for some.

As Qpa stated the 100 extra energy makes it easier to not cap energy during downtime, and like he wrote, you can pool for more generator spam on fresh rips:
1. More uptime on ashamanes rip
Through the extra shreds you cast to reach 5 CP which you wouldnt do with gloves, you will have a theoretical higher chance of proccing Ashamanes Rip (although minimal, personally I find it too rng to see the difference consistently).

2. Less overriding of weaker Rip
The pooling makes you able to line up TF for RIP better without capping energy as you can pool longer, this again gives minimal but higher % chance of getting TF lined up when needing to refresh rip rather than throw a rip for 5 seconds then reapply with TF.

As I have been lucky with legendaries and gotten all useful ones, I have tried using multiple combinations, personally I find playing with the gloves tends to get a wee bit spammy (I have around 50% crit without Blood Scent) and on fights like Guarm where I use gloves/boots I cap on both predatory swiftness procs and see my self spending way more energy on finishers that I'd like as feral. (buff bite already)

How much you benefit from each legendary comes down to how you play in the end I reckon, in my experience ring was a chill way to play, wait and pool, buff the dots, then burn energy on generators. Whereas playing with gloves (and high crit) felt like being a subtlety rogue with honor amongst thieves, having to constantly be prepared to spend those CP to benefit the most.

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Cantor (Shredable)
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Cantor (Shredable) » Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:39 am

cg1351 wrote:
Cantor (Shredable) wrote:The ring and belt are better than the gloves for single target; the gloves will pull ahead on 2+ targets (I believe). On 2+ sustained targets, ring + gloves; on any fight with a boss + adds, belt + gloves.
Where on earth are you getting this from? How would a ring that allows literally just a few extra shreds over the course of an entire fight be a dps gain over the gloves?
Because that's not at all what the ring does (assuming we're talking about Chattoyant); by allowing you to pool more, you a) get more leeway in the rotation and more importantly b) can pool for longer before a Rip, which lets you use more builders after a Rip, thus increasing your chance of proccing AB at a high duration.

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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by cg1351 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:57 am

All of that and you haven't explained how it would beat boots/belt/gloves/fuckinganything. Does this ring increase your regen as a hidden passive also or has this site gone so far downhill that a bunch of randoms can give out ill advice repeatedly and no-one decent is correcting them? People still come here for advice, think before you speak. The ring you lot are suggesting people use is literally the worst legendary of them ALL, i'd sooner take the cc to proc haste one as that atleast has some potential.

Solushunz
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Solushunz » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:55 pm

When I got the gloves my DPS went up quite a bit, after I became familiar with how to play with them. I currently run gloves/belt (that's what I have - no boots sadly), but I'm having a difficult time justifying using the ring over the belt if I was to receive it next... Pretty much the only time I can see it being "good" is on the opener and whenever Berserk comes up (maybe). On the opener, is it really going to be over the value of Symbiote's ~3% damage, though? You're trading a guaranteed 2.5-3% damage for a chance at a proc, which, if it procs early on, you won't gain anything else significant until it wears off again, so...

I could see the ring having some use in M+ possibly, though. I'd mess around with it regardless just to see. Who knows, maybe it would be good? I don't have one to test.

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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by fizzlefox » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:48 pm

I'm not saying the ring is better than any of the others but it is definitely more than just an extra 100 energy, and depending on the fight having that extra cap space can lead to spending A LOT more than just 100 extra energy. Any fights with any sort of downtime the ring becomes extremely valuable because you can pool past 100 energy. So where as without the ring you are sitting capped out for multiple seconds with nothing to do, the ring allows you to keep gaining energy which leads to using more combo builders than someone without the ring.

Also, the ring allows you to sit on your rip/SR/Rake's a lot longer and make sure you are refreshing at pandemic range. Where as without the ring you end up refreshing a lot of things early otherwise you just end up wasting energy. This is especially true when you have a BT/TF RIP up and want to essentially let it run out before refreshing RIP without the TF. You can just maximize your energy consumption a lot better by being able to sit on buffed dots longer and pool much more effectively. And like others have said when you are able to pool past 100 you have a lot more energy to spend on builders to proc a long duration AB.

So your mindset of "it's just a couple more shreds for an entire fight" is extremely misguided. It allows a lot more flexibility in your rotation.

cg1351
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by cg1351 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:46 am

There simply isn't as much flexibility built into feral single target atm to make your claim even remotely true and every good feral will maximise their energy efficiently making the extra 100 energy completely redundant so i think it is you who is totally misguided and actively spreading nonsense to others as fact. The boots/gloves are clearly the best, belt is pretty good and vastly superior to the other options, then you have the wrists for m+ and some nice stats on the chest/neck with some utility; The energy neck is by far the most useless piece of fucking shit legendary you could get as a feral so much so that it is beat by a 860 crit mastery ring. I like that people have different perspectives but your reasoning for how confident you are about the ring being that strong is very very lacking.

Ghrell
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Ghrell » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:17 pm

cg1351 wrote:All of that and you haven't explained how it would beat boots/belt/gloves/fuckinganything. Does this ring increase your regen as a hidden passive also or has this site gone so far downhill that a bunch of randoms can give out ill advice repeatedly and no-one decent is correcting them? People still come here for advice, think before you speak. The ring you lot are suggesting people use is literally the worst legendary of them ALL, i'd sooner take the cc to proc haste one as that atleast has some potential.
For people who don't rock 90%+ parses or are still learning how to master feral it's probably the single largest dps increase from a legendary. It's slows the playstyle a bit more, allows more time to make choices and creates a bit of pooling during phase changes. For a spec that's largely built around making as few mistakes as possible as opposed to seizing procs and opportunities it's a big win.

Boots & Gloves are the obvious choice if you have them but if you have to choose between either of the rings, or the belt; then all Chatoyant has to do is prevent you from losing more dps than you would gain by using the others. This makes it seem counter-intuitive for min/maxers since ideally you should be playing near optimally to begin with but not everybody can manage that. I see some ferals in the 50% parse ranges wasting 15-20% of their energy through capping alone.

Also, Prydaz is the worst. =)

cg1351
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by cg1351 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:11 pm

Do you think even the best of us ferals started at 99th percentile or what? If people care enough to really wanna learn this spec out of them all and have managed to make there way to this site can we please give them enough credit to assume they want the same information we get... not some bs polar opposite retard friendly advice sold as gold that will ultimately slow these people down.. Wtf ever happened to people wanting to be the best?

Ghrell
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Ghrell » Mon Jan 09, 2017 7:42 pm

cg1351 wrote:Do you think even the best of us ferals started at 99th percentile or what? If people care enough to really wanna learn this spec out of them all and have managed to make there way to this site can we please give them enough credit to assume they want the same information we get... not some bs polar opposite retard friendly advice sold as gold that will ultimately slow these people down.. Wtf ever happened to people wanting to be the best?
Like no one ever was? They do pet battles. Training them is their cause.

As you said, many would like to be at the 99th but they don't start there. In the case of both doing better dps immediately and learning how to play the spec better, Chatoyant does a good job. In fact you probably couldn't design a better legendary for it since it doesn't really punish you much when you finally switch it out for one that actually adds dps. And that's before we get into any M+ debates; I've seen a few 15'ers running Wildshapers+Chatoyant with SotF like Guiltyas.

You seem actively hostile; bad day?

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Ravajin
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Ravajin » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:55 pm

Sup with the aggressiveness man?

If you don't agree with what people write, fine, but I've yet to see a proper reason from you backing up using gloves over ring other than the ring "being shit" which I find odd if you wanna be taken seriously :)

Our only damaging finisher other than rip hits like a wet noodle

Ancihcaor
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Ancihcaor » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:18 pm

mmmkkkk, bye Felicia

next time maybe drop the elitist arrogant aggressive attitude and try to have a respectful conversation?

Ghrell
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Ghrell » Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:13 pm

It's okay to be frustrated. It's not okay to take your frustrations out on everyone else. You blame me for some perceived ruination of the game but I don't understand what it is you're complaining about or how I have, in some way, thrust this upon you. You're trash talking who I'm assuming is 'Fragnance' but I don't understand what you're referring to because I haven't taken PvP seriously since...BC I think? So while I'm generally aware that Fragnance is feral and has achieved some modicum of success with Twitch and PvP I don't really follow him.

Ya got me, I'm casual. My guild killed Odyn and Guarm on Heroic for the first time this past Sunday. I'm pretty happy with that since we're a small group of 10-14 real life friends. But you're welcome to take a look at my parses and tell me where I can improve. I think I do fairly well for myself given my item level.

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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Ghrell » Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:05 pm

cg1351 wrote:My opinion would always be viewed that way because mediocre people are insecure af, when i was being flamed for using all the wrong talents, gear or w.e i just said thanks, practiced, came back and kicked their asses; I'm not to blame for your weak ass mentality nor am i responsible for making you feel like you're in your safe space. I simply want you to stop spreading blatant misinformation as solid advice, atleast until you give some actual solid reasoning for your incorrect opinion.
I never implied I needed a 'safe space' and I disagree that my mentality is the problem here in more ways than one. I don't believe I spread misinformation and everything I've posted is as correct as I can be to the limits of my knowledge. I have no reason to lie or misdirect anyone. I also gave what I believe to be solid reasoning as to why Chatoyant has value and why it DOES increase dps for some people even though it won't for someone with near perfect play.

I think your opinion is viewed the way it is because telling people to 'nut up' isn't actually helpful (try explaining how and why with examples) and the sooner you realize that I think the better off everyone will be.

cg1351
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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by cg1351 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:21 pm

I already stated why it would be weaker to use ring over just about every other legendary, scroll up you clown. You're acting like me asking for solid reasoning to multiple people claiming ring is the best legendary is unreasonable and aggressive... Burden of proof is on you with your fucking retarded claims for a start, you got all on the defensive from the get go because you're just so blatantly wrong. Stop using terms like ''i believe'' ''to the limits of my knowledge'' after you've informed us you're literally trash, you don't have any knowledge so you're better off shutting up and learning from others (if there is anyone left on this site with anything useful to say i guess). I never once claimed my side of the argument was for people to 'git gud' 'mejt' i simply asked why you lot was telling people such utter crap (i wanted a reason as maybe you had some information i did not, foolish of me i know). I may be an asshole.. but i'm right and you're wrong, so stfu already please, save your feelings for your diary or w.e.
We'll keep this site about the facts so you don't waste peoples time, the responsible thing to do no?
The boss moving out of melee range for anything less than 9 seconds should not result in an energy loss at all period if you play correct so stop posting that nonsensical argument as if it's gonna be stronger than millions of free damage or much much stronger stats with utility from the other items.
Too many shit players that want their opinions to have equal footing for no reason other than they've seen too many SJW videos on youtube and feel inspired lol

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Re: Clutch feels weird

Post by Ghrell » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:56 pm

cg1351 wrote:I already stated why it would be weaker to use ring over just about every other legendary, scroll up you clown. You're acting like me asking for solid reasoning to multiple people claiming ring is the best legendary is unreasonable and aggressive... Burden of proof is on you with your fucking retarded claims for a start, you got all on the defensive from the get go because you're just so blatantly wrong. Stop using terms like ''i believe'' ''to the limits of my knowledge'' after you've informed us you're literally trash, you don't have any knowledge so you're better off shutting up and learning from others (if there is anyone left on this site with anything useful to say i guess). I never once claimed my side of the argument was for people to 'git gud' 'mejt' i simply asked why you lot was telling people such utter crap (i wanted a reason as maybe you had some information i did not, foolish of me i know). I may be an asshole.. but i'm right and you're wrong, so stfu already please, save your feelings for your diary or w.e.
We'll keep this site about the facts so you don't waste peoples time, the responsible thing to do no?
The boss moving out of melee range for anything less than 9 seconds should not result in an energy loss at all period if you play correct so stop posting that nonsensical argument as if it's gonna be stronger than millions of free damage or much much stronger stats with utility from the other items.
Too many shit players that want their opinions to have equal footing for no reason other than they've seen too many SJW videos on youtube and feel inspired lol
I'm trying to be as nice as possible here but you're ridiculous. If you even bothered to read what I posted you'd understand why Chatoyant CAN be a dps increase but instead you've got your head buried so far up your own elitist ass you couldn't find daylight on the sun. The only time I've waste is in replying to you; adios.

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