7.1.5 talent selection and stats

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bacevicius
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7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by bacevicius » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:22 pm

Has anyone had any input on the new patch with the secondary nerfs and the rip relic nerf as to if all our talents will stay the same? Are we still at the SR, BT, LI build or will more damage come from a selection of other than the build weve determined is the most for damage since the legion launch? Also they have said that no matter what the secondaries are we should be choosing the highest ilvl of all gear . My crit has gone down to 28.3% which makes the legendary hand PS proc less likely to proc as when i was at 37^% any thoughts on switching to Blood Scent over Lunar Inspiration? Thanks

Nich
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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by Nich » Wed Jan 11, 2017 5:54 pm

Curious to hear just how people are coping with the loss of crit. Last night felt so damn clunky, with almost no haste and so few crits.

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WebDev
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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by WebDev » Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:27 am

Nich wrote:Curious to hear just how people are coping with the loss of crit. Last night felt so damn clunky, with almost no haste and so few crits.
exactly my thoughts.
last night we did EN M and ToV HC and my dps was horrible enought. i compared it to logs from before, it felt like a nerf.
I checked fights like Ursoc and Guarm, for some reason dps was lower. Maybe due to 3 Rip relics i have and mastery-heavy gear (almost 10k mastery, around 66%).
This might be also related to other specs' buffs though and maybe some other things (worse uptimes, different pots and usage per fight, different fight lengths), but still it was looking worse overall on like every fight. But green/blue percentiles and only 441k on Guarm HC with 890 ilvl is really bad.
Was playing with BS/SR/JW/BT talents whole raid night i think.
And even if we stayed close to where we were before (nerf not that big as i felt it was), it still looks like some other specs jumped so much higher.
Looking forward to Nighthold and see if 2p/4p will help to boost things up, but don't think feral will get priority on getting tier sets any time soon :D

bacevicius
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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by bacevicius » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:46 am

I checked logs and even though we got a flat 8% buff the total loss of crit and mastery etc and the rip relic nerf is making us actually lower at damage until we replace the rip relics with 3 rake ones . I just dont know what they are doing with us it seems like they are wanting to just kill of ferals for good since WOD.

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Tinderhoof
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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by Tinderhoof » Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:43 pm

Oh please. I've heard that same complaint in BC and every expac since. It was silly than, and it's silly now. I totally admit they have done a poor job on making Feral actually work with the PVE meta more often than not. But no one is trying to make a spec unviable. They just aren't putting a lot of effort into it this expac.

One thing to note. While yes Rake relics are better now, only replace them at an equivalent ilvl (or better). They are not so much better than Rip to be worth dropping any ilvl.

Lastly and sadly, the 2p/4p combo is really not a very good damage boost for our Single Target. On the other hand it will offer a rather nice boost to Bloody Slash in Mythic +.

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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by Dewgy » Fri Jan 13, 2017 8:24 pm

Yeah you have to remember it's pure incompetence rather then pure maliciousness. =P

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Tinderhoof
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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by Tinderhoof » Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:02 pm

That is not necessary nor does it add to the conversation. Name calling isn't helpful and honestly in this case is false. I know you are frustrated, but throwing out mean stuff isn't going to help.

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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by Dewgy » Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:17 pm

Ah it's just simple ribbing towards the balance team and nobody in particular. It helps weaken the pain. =P I just remember hey at least we aint hunters. Not sure if theres anything we can really do except wait for the hotfix anyway if any changes happen for us.

bacevicius
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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by bacevicius » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:32 am

Well I have always played cat and will not change to another spec simply because I find them all dull compared to feral. But I must disagree with tender this time. Yes they have done nothing for us compared to most other specs but the fact that more ferals have turned boomy or completely quit this past two expacs more than any before feels like yes, they arent bothering to fix us at all which implies we are as another member put it ' dead in the water ' going on almost 2 years, IMO. Which dosent mean that maybe next year we will be WOTLK op again . The game revolves around purposely op'ing certain classes , nerfing others round and round, weve just be left out of that for far too long.

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Tinderhoof
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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by Tinderhoof » Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:24 pm

Allowing us to continue to be decent to start, and scaling to mediocre at best at single target is a choice not incompetence. Ya their efforts to make us more viable have missed the mark since they took bear catting away. Rune was an unintended result but left us only really good at what we were supposed to be good at already (single target) and still very poor at AoE so we didn't get changed like WW monks did.

As the mechanics them elves aren't broken and still continue to flow well together we have been left with out a mechanical refresh since Lich King. However those mechanics don't fit with the current PVE raid and dungeon design. It is annoying and frustrating but hardly something malicious as previously indicated, or is it purposeful as you indicate. We continue to be great at nothing, and bad at other things, but still aren't the worst off. That is likely the biggest issue of all. Because we continue to limp along as "OK" we don't get the focus that the Pures got this time for spec differentiation cause we aren't like boomkins, and we didn't get the mechanical refresh because it still "works" (even if it's only in a vacuum).
bacevicius wrote:dead in the water ' going on almost 2 years, IMO
The last two years have been Hellfire Citadel and Legion. Hellfire we were screwed by the fact that the stupid Ring benefited other classes more than us, and less because we were bad. If you mean the last 2 expacs well than you still have to include Rune in there. We have had constant ups and downs. There is no specific down trend other than we have remained untouched mechanic wise.
bacevicius wrote:Yes they have done nothing for us compared to most other specs but the fact that more ferals have turned boomy or completely quit this past two expacs more than any before
This just isn't true. As we move in and out of the FotM for both PVP and PVE the population fluctuates. Our height PVE was more certainly SOO due to Rune. Feral wasn't amazing but still very powerful in PVP for WoD. But either way we have never been a huge population compared to the other 3 druid specs (which dominate the game).

In essence since I have been involved with this community (in Wrath) I have seen everyone of these complaints and accusations. Ya we do get far less attention than every other class. It sucks. But the sky isn't falling, and the spec isn't going away (no matter how many people or how many times its said).

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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by teddabear » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:00 pm

I couldn't find addons I liked in this expansion, which I feel was due to the spec losing long term players. I am reasonably good at customizing weak auras to my liking but not good enough to write my own. I've been worried this would happen as Blizzard kept moving in a direction that alienated hardcore Ferals. Feral is so dependent on addons that regardless of performance it's not much fun for me if I am not comfortable with my UI.

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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by Eqúinox » Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:41 am

teddabear wrote:I couldn't find addons I liked in this expansion, which I feel was due to the spec losing long term players. I am reasonably good at customizing weak auras to my liking but not good enough to write my own. I've been worried this would happen as Blizzard kept moving in a direction that alienated hardcore Ferals. Feral is so dependent on addons that regardless of performance it's not much fun for me if I am not comfortable with my UI.
I know what you mean, had my ui set during wotlk - stopped being supported. Ended up using Fragnance's ui and tailoring it a way that works for me.

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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by Aliandren » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:37 pm

We need a minor redesign imo.

Savage roar baseline
Jagged woubds removed
Bleed scaling with haste baseline
Brutal slash moved to SR location
Ferocious bite damage increased
Moment of clarity removed, replace with talent that makes SR passive (for the easy/learning curve build)
Add talent in JW location to spread rakes somehow.

Nich
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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by Nich » Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:17 pm

Aliandren wrote:We need a minor redesign imo.
Add talent in JW location to spread rakes somehow.
Don't want to derail this into the usual 'but we need to change the class' thread, but the usual suggestion was thrashing on a rake target spreads it around. The suggestion I'd make at this point, in light of new spriest mechanics with voidbolt, is that thrash just refreshes rake. Still need the aoe setup of raking everything but then you can swap to thrash/swipe.

That haste scaling tho'. Until they fix it properly... (points for pointing out that 25% base haste on bleeds is probably better than most people would see from haste scaling hah)

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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by Dewgy » Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:02 pm

In the end if we are at the lowest end of the dps charts in single target our only niche then there really is a huge problem and since we always act rather apathetic about it saying we are OK and just need a little fix then nothing will ever change. As a spec with a single target niche we should be first or second on single target dps charts but that hasn't been the case in a long time. It's why I am not really a fan of the discord, they use such gentle words and tone policing as if not to hurt blizzards feelings that anybody looking at it would think it isn't really a big deal.

In the end it seems blizzard only listens and instantly changes the classes who are kicking and screaming which is a bad example to set but its clearly the only one that works. Although at this point we likely don't even have the number of feral faithful to even get their attention.

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Re: 7.1.5 talent selection and stats

Post by Dashuria » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:55 am

Did you guys look at logs statistics? We are good until 30% perf. then we are last, a bit disappointing that even BM and outlaw can beat us

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