So, patch+hotfixes...

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Solushunz
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So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Solushunz » Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:06 pm

Are we basically dead in the water? Because it feels like we're going to be dead in the water. No changes listed in the hotfixes, a questionable patch with even more questionable changes (and nerfs) and our tier is extremely lackluster. I'd like to think gear scaling alone will fix it, but I'm not going to hold my breath either.

Anyone have thoughts on what to do? Time to go Boomkin and accept that I'm 46 traits in (I know, some of you have 54, but I don't farm M+ like many and have worked to fill out my other weapons a good bit too) and I'm not even at 35 yet as Boomkin, so bench life boyz?

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Konungr
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Konungr » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:15 pm

Or if you know your spec well enough you can still perform well enough to keep your raid slot even when there is a slight dip in performance... I've been Feral since classic and have never been forced to change specs (other than when the tank was a no-show and I had to fill in) whether feral was at the top of the charts or at the bottom of the charts. Even at times when Feral was the absolute bottom of the dps charts on sim sites, I would still be in the top 5 dps (25 mans) of any raid I joined simply because I knew how to play the spec to it's full potential.

Metan
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Metan » Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:17 pm

feral its not only the spec, its a lifestyle ;)

iam still on of the top dps in our guild so, easy breath.

Nich
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Nich » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:52 am

Solushunz wrote:Are we basically dead in the water? Because it feels like we're going to be dead in the water. No changes listed in the hotfixes, a questionable patch with even more questionable changes (and nerfs) and our tier is extremely lackluster. I'd like to think gear scaling alone will fix it, but I'm not going to hold my breath either.

Anyone have thoughts on what to do? Time to go Boomkin and accept that I'm 46 traits in (I know, some of you have 54, but I don't farm M+ like many and have worked to fill out my other weapons a good bit too) and I'm not even at 35 yet as Boomkin, so bench life boyz?
Why? Do you have the really big balance legendaries that help prop it up?

RareBeast
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by RareBeast » Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:23 am

I've been a bit disappointed with the patch. Saw 8% increase and thought sweet! Then read the other classes and was not so happy. Still doing OK but have been passed by our ret pallys who I normally comfortably beat. They've been right up the top of the meters since the patch.

Still love feral and will never change but it is a little disheartening.

Solushunz
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Solushunz » Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:56 pm

Nich wrote:
Solushunz wrote:Are we basically dead in the water? Because it feels like we're going to be dead in the water. No changes listed in the hotfixes, a questionable patch with even more questionable changes (and nerfs) and our tier is extremely lackluster. I'd like to think gear scaling alone will fix it, but I'm not going to hold my breath either.

Anyone have thoughts on what to do? Time to go Boomkin and accept that I'm 46 traits in (I know, some of you have 54, but I don't farm M+ like many and have worked to fill out my other weapons a good bit too) and I'm not even at 35 yet as Boomkin, so bench life boyz?
Why? Do you have the really big balance legendaries that help prop it up?
I wish.

And I'm not unhappy with how the spec performs itself, although the OoC change is needlessly clunky, it is definitely saddening seeing the "easy" to master specs skyrocket on single target fights, which was our niche. I still do well in raid, but well for me vs. well for DH/Ret seems like a different story now, as compared to pre-patch.

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Konungr
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Konungr » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:44 am

Solushunz wrote:I wish.

And I'm not unhappy with how the spec performs itself, although the OoC change is needlessly clunky, it is definitely saddening seeing the "easy" to master specs skyrocket on single target fights, which was our niche. I still do well in raid, but well for me vs. well for DH/Ret seems like a different story now, as compared to pre-patch.

To what OoC change are you referring?

Ghrell
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Ghrell » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:18 am

Konungr wrote:
Solushunz wrote:I wish.

And I'm not unhappy with how the spec performs itself, although the OoC change is needlessly clunky, it is definitely saddening seeing the "easy" to master specs skyrocket on single target fights, which was our niche. I still do well in raid, but well for me vs. well for DH/Ret seems like a different story now, as compared to pre-patch.

To what OoC change are you referring?
Probably the removal of everything but Shred, Swipe and Thrash from OoC. OoC on Rake during cleave wasn't bad and using an OoC proc on SR within Berserk/Lust when you would otherwise energy cap was damage neutral. While it's generally going to be a beneficial damage increase it's not an intuitive change, so it feels a little clunky.

Nich
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Nich » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:26 am

The problem with the OOC change is if you need to hit, say, rake for using up buffs to bleeds, but you can't because you have OOC sitting there but are at 0 energy from a previous button press.

Metan
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Metan » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:02 pm

i really like this patch. toady i top our raid. On guarm hc 500k dps with 885ilv. Feral is strong.

Istaro
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Istaro » Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:07 pm

Nich wrote:The problem with the OOC change is if you need to hit, say, rake for using up buffs to bleeds, but you can't because you have OOC sitting there but are at 0 energy from a previous button press.
Yeah, there are definitely situations where it's not only a QoL decrease but a DPS decrease, like when you need to refresh both bleeds and just used HT I mean Regrowth at 4 CPs and all of a sudden OoC procs. You need to use Rake and then Rip in order to use your BT charges properly, but that means leaving the OoC proc sitting there, which means potentially wasting any subsequent OoC proc that might otherwise have occurred during that time. Ok, that's only two GCDs, but I'm sure I've run into situations since 7.1.5 where I've had to let an OoC proc sit there for like four GCDs, I just can't remember the specifics.

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Konungr
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Konungr » Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:27 am

Ghrell wrote:
Konungr wrote:
Solushunz wrote:I wish.

And I'm not unhappy with how the spec performs itself, although the OoC change is needlessly clunky, it is definitely saddening seeing the "easy" to master specs skyrocket on single target fights, which was our niche. I still do well in raid, but well for me vs. well for DH/Ret seems like a different story now, as compared to pre-patch.

To what OoC change are you referring?
Probably the removal of everything but Shred, Swipe and Thrash from OoC. OoC on Rake during cleave wasn't bad and using an OoC proc on SR within Berserk/Lust when you would otherwise energy cap was damage neutral. While it's generally going to be a beneficial damage increase it's not an intuitive change, so it feels a little clunky.

Ok, so the patch notes only mentioned Moment of Clarity being changed, not Omen. Just tested it out (I don't get to Feral much this expac, deployment, limited play time, guardian=quicker ques). Omen indeeed only reduces Shred/Thrash/Swipe damage, however, I fail to see any clunky-ness in the rotation as a side effect. Clearcasting procs don't stop you from using other abilities, you can still use Rake, Rip, Moonfire, SR, FB; it just doesn't consume the proc and it stays up until you use your Shred/Swipe/Thrash. We've always known that Shred has been the best choice for OoM procs since Wrath, this just makes it to where Ferals that don't pay attention to it aren't losing any potential DPS.
Nich wrote:The problem with the OOC change is if you need to hit, say, rake for using up buffs to bleeds, but you can't because you have OOC sitting there but are at 0 energy from a previous button press.
There are several reasons why this is just wrong...
1) Proper energy pooling prevents the above scenario
2) If you are pooling energy properly and paying attention to your timers, then you aren't going to hit 0 energy right before you need to Rake, relying on a OoC to save you, especially since you should have only been using OoC procs on Shreds/Swipes/Thrashes to begin with.
3) OoC procs do not prohibit you from using other abilities. Rake, Rip, Moonfire, Savage Roar, and Ferocious Bite are all still completely functional while Clearcasting is up, it simply saves the Clearcasting proc until you use a Shred/Swipe/Thrash.
Istaro wrote:
Nich wrote:The problem with the OOC change is if you need to hit, say, rake for using up buffs to bleeds, but you can't because you have OOC sitting there but are at 0 energy from a previous button press.
Yeah, there are definitely situations where it's not only a QoL decrease but a DPS decrease, like when you need to refresh both bleeds and just used HT I mean Regrowth at 4 CPs and all of a sudden OoC procs. You need to use Rake and then Rip in order to use your BT charges properly, but that means leaving the OoC proc sitting there, which means potentially wasting any subsequent OoC proc that might otherwise have occurred during that time. Ok, that's only two GCDs, but I'm sure I've run into situations since 7.1.5 where I've had to let an OoC proc sit there for like four GCDs, I just can't remember the specifics.
I'll grant you that one, the change does increase the chance of wasting any procs that would have occurred while your current OoC proc is up. However, given that very rarely do we have any patchwerk fights, the dps loss caused by this is so minimal it won't make a dent.

Nich
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Nich » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:15 am

I played under the 'if OOC is up, press buttons like you normally would' philosophy, unless I am literally sitting there with no aggro (hi skitterish), no fire to avoid, and have lots of time to pool energy waiting for refreshes - in which case it was thrash, for shadowthrash fishing shits and giggles.

So in situations where I'm not doing that - where I'm learning new fight mechanics or I'm trying to throw out heals to keep people alive and not save them for when BT best suits me - then yeah, I'm already not playing ideally. It's already frustrating enough that we still have a bug where finishers aren't parried but just don't go off, and this is just another instance where I'm trying to press a button without paying my UI too much attention and can't work out why it's not doing anything.

Otherwise, yeah, sure, saving it for moments where it's most needed from an energy-saved POV is great.

Aliandren
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Aliandren » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:27 pm

I am not a top feral or anything but I usually pulled 80-90% for my ilvl, have Gloves and the chest, 42 weapon. I started trying bookie on Thursday, got it to 35 with sephuz/chest doing the aoe build. Already I'm doing almost as much SR as feral(while playing aoe spec) and blow it away in aoe.

My plan is to play both for now, switching to balance on aoe or cleave fights.

Ryvella
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Re: So, patch+hotfixes...

Post by Ryvella » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:17 am

Metan wrote:i really like this patch. toady i top our raid. On guarm hc 500k dps with 885ilv. Feral is strong.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11#boss=1842

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics ... dataset=95


If you've Raidmembers, who can play their class very well, I would not say that "feral" is strong ;)

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