Simulationcraft - Feral rotation discussion and script

[raffy]

I'm almost finished with a simc importer for my simulator (parses the action list directly), but I've got a few questions about some of these expressions:

What are these two?

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dot.rake.multiplier<=tick_multiplier

Have you guys asked the simc guys to add dot.*.ticksLeft or something similar? All of these "<3 >2 <6 >5" comparisons gets confusing, and they're all effectively translate into a integer number of remaining ticks.

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$(rip_remains)=(dot.rip.remains+(8-(dot.rip.ticks_added*2)))

This is effectively "maximum rip time remaining"? Why 8? Shouldn't that be 6? Since there are only 3 extends?

Edit:

Okay, I think I see how this is working.
- tick_multiplier is just a generic dmg modifier thing, possibly the product of TF/NV/SR/DoC?
- dot.rip.multiplier and dot.rake.multiplier are just the snapshotted value

I can directly query the exact tick damage in my simulator, so I need to do some kind of replacement such that the Rake tick_multiplier is different from the Rip tick_multiplier.

[aggixx]

Edit:

Okay, I think I see how this is working.
- tick_multiplier is just a generic dmg modifier thing, possibly the product of TF/NV/SR/DoC?
- dot.rip.multiplier and dot.rake.multiplier are just the snapshotted value

I can directly query the exact tick damage in my simulator, so I need to do some kind of replacement such that the Rake tick_multiplier is different from the Rip tick_multiplier.

Yes, in the Ovale script it calculates exact tick damage and compares them but in SimC we just compare the amount of flat dmg buffs we had since that functionality is not available.

It's 8 seconds instead of 6 because SimC models it as 1-1-2 ticks added for each extend respectively (it's a bug thing).

[Leafkiller]

I moved the working copy of the simc script to the first post of this thread and locked the experimental thread so we can keep the conversation in one place. I also made this thread sticky and included the AoE script in that post.

[raffy]

I finished my simc parser, here is the translation of the latest simc script:

Spoiler: show

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run:
Berserking       null
Synapse Springs  HotW.time
Potion           Or[HotW.time,LE[TTL,40]]
Wrath            LT[CastTime,HotW.time]
Cat Form         !Cat
HT               And[Talent:DoC,And[PS.time,And[LE[PS.time,1.5],!DoC.stack]]]
SR               !SR.time
Skull Bash       null
HT               And[Talent:DoC,And[PS.time,And[GE[Combo,4],LT[DoC.stack,2]]]]
HT               And[Talent:DoC,NS.time]
Synapse Springs  null
TF               And[LE[Energy,35],!OoC.time]
Berserk          Or[TF.time,And[LT[TTL,15],GT[TF.ready,6]]]
Nature's Vigil   And[Berserk.time,Talent:NV]
Incarnation      And[Berserk.time,Talent:KotJ]
FB               And[GE[Combo,1],And[Rip.time,And[LE[Rip.time,2],LE[TargetPerc,25]]]]
FF               LT[WeakArmor.stack,3]
Thrash           And[GE[TTL,6],And[OoC.time,And[LT[Thrash.time,3],!DoC.stack]]]
FB               Or[And[LE[TTL,4],GE[Combo,5]],And[LE[TTL,1],GE[Combo,3]]]
SR               And[LE[SR.time,3],And[GT[Combo,0],And[!DoC.stack,LT[TargetPerc,25]]]]
NS               And[Talent:DoC,And[!DoC.stack,And[!PS.time,And[GE[Combo,5],LE[TargetPerc,25]]]]]
Potion           Or[And[Talent:DoC,And[GE[Combo,5],And[LE[TargetPerc,25],DoC.stack]]],Or[And[!Talent:DoC,And[Berserk.time,LE[TargetPerc,25]]],LE[TTL,40]]]
Rip              And[GE[Combo,5],And[Potion.time,And[DoC.stack,And[LT[Rip.dmg,Rip.dmgNew],And[LE[TargetPerc,25],GT[TTL,30]]]]]]
Rip              And[GE[Combo,5],And[GT[Div[Rip.dmgNew,Rip.dmg],1.14],And[LE[TargetPerc,25],GT[TTL,30]]]]
Wait: 100ms      And[GE[Combo,5],And[Rip.time,And[LE[TargetPerc,25],And[Or[And[LT[Energy,50],!Berserk.time],And[LT[Energy,25],GT[Berserk.time,1]]],Talent:DoC]]]]
FB               And[GE[Combo,5],And[Rip.time,LE[TargetPerc,25]]]
Rip              And[GE[Combo,5],And[GE[TTL,6],And[LT[Rip.time,2],DoC.stack]]]
Rip              And[GE[Combo,5],And[GE[TTL,6],And[LT[Rip.time,6],And[DoC.stack,And[LE[Rip.dmg,Rip.dmgNew],GT[TargetPerc,25]]]]]]
NS               And[Talent:DoC,And[!DoC.stack,And[!PS.time,And[GE[Combo,5],And[LT[Rip.time,3],And[Or[Berserk.time,LE[Plus[Rip.time,1.9],TF.ready]],GT[TargetPerc,25]]]]]]]
Rip              And[GE[Combo,5],And[GE[TTL,6],And[LT[Rip.time,2],Or[Berserk.time,LE[Plus[Rip.time,1.9],TF.ready]]]]]
SR               And[LE[SR.time,3],And[GT[Combo,0],And[Talent:DoC,GT[Plus[SR.time,2],Rip.time]]]]
SR               And[LE[SR.time,3],And[GT[Combo,0],And[!Talent:DoC,!And[LT[Rip.time,2],And[GE[Combo,5],Or[Berserk.time,LE[Plus[Rip.time,1.9],TF.ready]]]]]]]
Thrash           And[GE[TTL,6],And[OoC.time,LT[Thrash.time,3]]]
Ravage           And[Rip.time,LE[Rip.time,4]]
Shred            And[Rip.time,LE[Rip.time,4]]
SR               And[LE[SR.time,6],And[GE[Combo,5],LE[Plus[SR.time,2],Rip.timeMax]]]
Wait: 100ms      And[Talent:DoC,And[GE[Combo,5],And[Or[And[LT[Energy,50],!Berserk.time],And[LT[Energy,25],GT[Berserk.time,1]]],And[GE[Sub[SR.time,6],Rip.timeMax],GE[Rip.timeMax,4.5]]]]]
Wait: 100ms      And[Talent:DoC,And[GE[Combo,5],And[Or[And[LT[Energy,50],!Berserk.time],And[LT[Energy,25],GT[Berserk.time,1]]],And[GE[Plus[SR.time,6],Rip.timeMax],GE[Rip.timeMax,6.5]]]]]
FB               And[Talent:DoC,And[GE[Combo,5],And[GE[Sub[SR.time,6],Rip.timeMax],GE[Rip.timeMax,4]]]]
FB               And[Talent:DoC,And[GE[Combo,5],And[GE[Plus[SR.time,6],Rip.timeMax],GE[Rip.timeMax,6]]]]
Wait: 100ms      And[Talent:DoC,And[GE[Combo,5],And[Or[And[LT[Energy,50],!Berserk.time],And[LT[Energy,25],GT[Berserk.time,1]]],GE[Rip.timeMax,10.5]]]]
FB               And[Talent:DoC,And[GE[Combo,5],GE[Rip.timeMax,10]]]
FB               And[GE[Combo,5],And[Or[GT[Rip.timeMax,10],And[GT[Rip.timeMax,6],Berserk.time]],Rip.time]]
Rake             And[GT[TTL,3],And[LT[Rake.time,6],And[DoC.stack,LE[Rake.dmg,Rake.dmgNew]]]]
Rake             And[GT[Sub[TTL,Rake.time],3],GT[Div[Rake.dmgNew,Rake.dmg],1.12]]
Rake             And[GT[Sub[TTL,Rake.time],3],And[LT[Rake.time,3],Or[Berserk.time,Or[GE[Plus[TF.ready,0.8],Rake.time],GT[Energy,60]]]]]
Ravage           OoC.time
Shred            OoC.time
Ravage           Or[And[LT[Combo,5],LT[Rip.time,3]],And[EQ[Combo,0],LT[SR.time,2]]]
Shred            Or[And[LT[Combo,5],LT[Rip.time,3]],And[EQ[Combo,0],LT[SR.time,2]]]
Thrash           And[GE[TTL,15],And[LT[Thrash.time,3],And[Berserk.time,And[Talent:SotF,Talent:DoC]]]]
Ravage           And[Talent:DoC,And[GT[PS.time,1],!LT[Plus[Energy,Times[EnergyPerSecond,Sub[PS.time,1]]],Times[Sub[4,Combo],20]]]]
Ravage           And[!Talent:DoC,And[Talent:SotF,And[LT[Combo,5],GT[Plus[Energy,Times[EnergyPerSecond,Sub[4,Combo]]],Times[Sub[5,Combo],20]]]]]
Ravage           LE[TTL,8.5]
Shred            And[Talent:DoC,And[GT[PS.time,1],!LT[Plus[Energy,Times[EnergyPerSecond,Sub[PS.time,1]]],Times[Sub[4,Combo],20]]]]
Shred            And[!Talent:DoC,And[Talent:SotF,And[LT[Combo,5],GT[Plus[Energy,Times[EnergyPerSecond,Sub[4,Combo]]],Times[Sub[5,Combo],20]]]]]
Shred            LE[TTL,8.5]
Thrash           And[GE[TTL,6],And[GE[Combo,5],And[LT[Thrash.time,6],Or[TF.time,Or[Berserk.time,NV.time]]]]]
Thrash           And[GE[TTL,6],And[GE[Combo,5],And[LT[Thrash.time,6],LE[TF.ready,3]]]]
Thrash           And[GE[TTL,6],And[GE[Combo,5],And[LT[Thrash.time,6],LE[TimeToEnergyCap,1]]]]
Ravage           Or[TF.time,Or[Berserk.time,NV.time]]
Ravage           LE[TF.ready,3]
Ravage           LE[TimeToEnergyCap,1]
Shred            Or[TF.time,Or[Berserk.time,NV.time]]
Shred            LE[TF.ready,3]
Shred            LE[TimeToEnergyCap,1]
Force of Nature  Talent:FoN
NS               And[NV.time,And[!Berserk.time,!PS.time]]
HT               And[NV.time,And[Or[PS.time,NS.time],!Berserk.time]]

However, when I run it, my DPS is lower than expected, so I'm looking for bugs:

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Runs = 10000
DPS: Median    = 114951
DPS: Mean      = 114980 +/- 30
DPS: Range     = 104736 -- 126628
Damage: Median = 50.08M
Damage: Mean   = 50.05M +/- 28.86K
Damage: Range  = 45.01M -- 55.16M
Time: Median   = 7.3m
Time: Mean     = 7.3m +/- 279ms
Time: Range    = 6.0m -- 8.6m

Edit: found one bug after posting this, my bitw is 0-1 and then script is using 0-100

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Runs = 1000
DPS: Median    = 117144
DPS: Mean      = 117108 +/- 111
DPS: Range     = 106175 -- 128787
Damage: Median = 50.02M
Damage: Mean   = 50.01M +/- 92.23K
Damage: Range  = 45.03M -- 55.12M
Time: Median   = 7.1m
Time: Mean     = 7.1m +/- 886ms
Time: Range    = 6.0m -- 8.6m

Edit 2: oh, this script isn't casting heroism. When are you triggering it?

[aggixx]

SimC does Bloodlust (as well as 2 stormlashes) as a raid event, they are essentially handled like a raid buff as far as enabling/disabling go and then they are autofired by the sim. By default Bloodlust is used at 25% HP or 60s TTD, whichever comes first, and the stormlashes are used in sequence on CD.

Banner is currently not a raid event but it probably will be in the near future at which point it'll be handled just like stormlash.

[Leafkiller]

They don't cast Bloodlust at the pull? That does give the highest raid dps...

[raffy]

Dang, I added 2 stormlashes and 25%/60sec hero, but I'm still not there yet, but I'm pretty close:

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DPS: Median    = 119174
DPS: Mean      = 119191 +/- 84
DPS: Range     = 105217 -- 133094
Damage: Median = 50.22M
Damage: Mean   = 50.15M +/- 64.13K
Damage: Range  = 45.02M -- 55.10M
Time: Median   = 7.0m
Time: Mean     = 7.0m +/- 622ms
Time: Range    = 5.8m -- 8.4m

[Leafkiller]

What raid buffs are you using?

[raffy]

Buff: Crit, Mastery, Melee Haste, Spell Haste, AP, SP, Stam, Stat
Debuff: WeakArmor, MeleeTaken, SpellTaken
Food: 300 agi
Flask: 1000 agi
Pre and Combat Pot: 4000 Agi
Behind
Stormlash: 2
Heroism: 60sec/25%

Edit: too many AP's :p

[aggixx]

They don't cast Bloodlust at the pull? That does give the highest raid dps...

At one point I thought it did but I wasn't able to confirm that by looking at reports and the documentation still says 25%/60TTD.

[raffy]

Fixed a bug with OoC and another with Stormlash, bringing your script w/my simulator (without latency emulation) up above my rotation, so I'll be using this in the future:

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DPS: Median    = 127367
DPS: Mean      = 127478 +/- 76
DPS: Range     = 117117 -- 138587
Damage: Median = 50.02M
Damage: Mean   = 50.03M +/- 63.88K
Damage: Range  = 45.03M -- 55.16M
Time: Median   = 6.5m
Time: Mean     = 6.5m +/- 565ms
Time: Range    = 5.5m -- 7.6m

Edit: with crit suppression:

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DPS: Median    = 126388
DPS: Mean      = 126464 +/- 71
DPS: Range     = 114452 -- 136870
Damage: Median = 50.13M
Damage: Mean   = 50.12M +/- 64.34K
Damage: Range  = 45.01M -- 55.25M
Time: Median   = 6.6m
Time: Mean     = 6.6m +/- 567ms
Time: Range    = 5.6m -- 7.7m

[Leafkiller]

Fixed a bug with OoC and another with Stormlash, bringing your script w/my simulator (without latency emulation) up above my rotation, so I'll be using this in the future:

Good to see that it is getting into the same range. I am not surprised that the dps in the current script is higher given the number of hours that many people have put into refining the simulations. That said, occasionally someone comes up with something that ultimately (after being refined) moves the dps quite a bit, like the energy pooling for FBs has for the DoC rotation.

There are some changes I have been wanting to make to the rotation that I cannot test in SimulationCraft due to the limitation that attack power is not included in the tick comparisons. I believe that several conditionals can be generalized. A good example is the conditional that extends Rip at 6 seconds if DoC is up and the new Rip ticks will be at least equal in damage. This can be generalized to a damage ratio increase compared to some baseline damage level. I think this will take into account the lookahead code you played with for trinket procs. I don't think it is necessary to look at how long the buffs have left to run (specifically trinkets) given how long Rip lasts, as checking to see if we are in a "high-damage" situation to clip Rip early should do what we want.

[Leafkiller]

@aggixx - I was looking at one of the energy pooling lines and realized it has a hole in it.

actions+=/pool_resource,wait=0.1,if=combo_points>=5&dot.rip.ticking&target.health.pct<=25&((energy<50&buff.berserk.down)|(energy<25&buff.berserk.remains>1))&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled

If it is trying to energy pool just as Berserk is expiring, it will fall through the pooling code when Berserk is still up but has less than or equal to 1 second left. Corrected code*:

actions+=/pool_resource,wait=0.1,if=combo_points>=5&dot.rip.ticking&target.health.pct<=25&((energy<50&(buff.berserk.down|buff.berserk.remains<=1))|(energy<25&buff.berserk.remains>1))&talent.dream_of_cenarius.enabled

* Edit: I am not sure if buff.berserk.remains<=1 is sufficient or if buff.berserk.down is also needed for this to be correct...

[aggixx]

I'm not sure if you're understanding what my intent was with those conditionals. The point was to make sure that it didn't pool for so long that berserk ended while it was in the middle of pooling, so when Berserk falls below 1 second it does the FB regardless of energy levels. In theory it's probably better to do the FB slightly before that if you're running SotF as you would probably want to use the energy return under berserk as well but I tried that and it was negligible so I threw it out.

[Leafkiller]

Got it. It affects how I implement the code in Ovale, and my current proposed solution has that hole in it, so I will adjust that now.

[Leafkiller]

It ends up being 3 conditionals in Ovale since I am using the energy conditionals for the Ferocious Bite:

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if ComboPoints()>5 and TargetDebuffPresent(RIP) and BITWRange() and TalentPoints(dream_of_cenarius_talent) {
    if {BuffRemains(BERSERK)>1.0 and Energy()>25} or {BuffPresent(BERSERK) and BuffRemains(BERSERK) <=1} or {BuffExpires(BERSERK) and Energy()>50} Spell(FEROCIOUSBITE)
}
unless ComboPoints()>5 and TargetDebuffPresent(RIP) and BITWRange() and TalentPoints(dream_of_cenarius_talent) {
    # the rest of the rotation follows
}

The main thing in Ovale is separating the conditionals for when to pool from the energy pool logic so that I can tell Ovale what spell I am trying to cast and get it to display with a countdown.

[Caltiom]

They don't cast Bloodlust at the pull? That does give the highest raid dps...

At one point I thought it did but I wasn't able to confirm that by looking at reports and the documentation still says 25%/60TTD.

http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraf ... /bloodlust says 25% or 5s into the fight, which I can confirm from looking at the code.

[aggixx]

Yeah there was contradicting information in two different places of the documentation, fixed the inconsistency.

[raffy]

Yeah there was contradicting information in two different places of the documentation, fixed the inconsistency.

Which one is actual default?

[aggixx]

25% or 5 seconds elapsed, whichever comes first.

[Leafkiller]

The challenge - build a very simple script for our rotation. The goal - dps is 95% of the current script (a stretch goal). Some rules:

It will only cover a single talent build - DoC + SotF + NS.
Glyph of Savagery.
It should be executable without any addons.

Thoughts on where to start:
Build a rotation with no damage ratios.
Minimize clipping.
Start by casting TF+Berserk on cooldown regardless of energy.
Use energy pooling only on FB and not for fillers.
Clip Rip at <2 seconds and Rake at <3 seconds without any other conditionals.
Cast HT with PS at 4 combo points or if running out.
Save NS for BitW phase to get a strong Rip up (we ignore it the rest of the fight).
BitW first Rip logic is something like: if in BitW and 5 seconds before TF, use Vermin's Bite. Save combo points for TF. Cast NS+HT, TF, Rip, Rake, etc.
Only have two SR conditionals - when it is down, and one conditional to use up 5 combo points.
Only have three FBs - one for BitW emergency, one for 5 combo point BitW, and one after the SR conditional for aggressive 5 combo point usage.
Two conditionals for Thrash - one for OOC and one at 5 combo points, both clipping at 3 seconds.

[Caltiom]

I was able to incorporate your complex, extended action list shown in the original posting, into SimC.

So far that was only a 1.2% dps increase compared to the action list we had. But it would be great to have a simpler default action list for it, even it that widens the dps margin further.

[Leafkiller]

I was able to incorporate your complex, extended action list shown in the original posting, into SimC.

So far that was only a 1.2% dps increase compared to the action list we had. But it would be great to have a simpler default action list for it, even it that widens the dps margin further.

The 1,2% dps increase you saw is very recent and is mostly due to adding energy pooling for Ferocious Bite during DoC. Most of the changes in the script posted here apply to the Nature's Vigil and Heart of the Wild rotations. While DoC has the highest potential DPS, the other specs are being used regularly. In particular, Heart of the Wild gets a lot of use due to the raid utility for high AoE fights and fights where you want the feral to use a very powerful Tranquility as a raid cooldown.

We will look into creating two scripts, a basic one for people to sim their toons with and an advanced one that has the highest possible dps we can find for a BiS build. In particular, this script is the one we can use for move suggester addons such as Ovale. My preference is to have both scripts available in simc. Is there a naming convention we should use?

Also, should we limit the simple script to a single talent build? That will simplify it a lot.

[Caltiom]

We will look into creating two scripts, a basic one for people to sim their toons with and an advanced one that has the highest possible dps we can find for a BiS build. In particular, this script is the one we can use for move suggester addons such as Ovale. My preference is to have both scripts available in simc. Is there a naming convention we should use?

Also, should we limit the simple script to a single talent build? That will simplify it a lot.

Have a look at http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraf ... _T14H.simc that's the quick and dirty implementation I did.

I'd rather have the simple script give "good" DPS for various talent/glyph combination ( there is also a lot of pre-conditioning you can do in the SimC code where the action list is stored ), and only have the complex one, which really is there to get the absolute best dps for a already BiS talent/gear setup only displayed if the player has those talents as well. Or is your complex one so complex that it already covers all possible situations?

[Leafkiller]

The BiS script covers all the talent combinations right now, although it has an issue with the tier 4 talent Incarnation. If I can just get Blizzard to buff the passive bonus of Heart of the Wild, just enough to bring it closer to DoC in dps, then I can give you a much simpler rotation for general use.