Heroic Ultraxion and Optimizing DPS

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Heroic Ultraxion and Optimizing DPS

Post by Kalze » Wed Jan 04, 2012 2:06 pm

So after running god knows how many Sims through Mew I keep coming across Mastery/crit builds yielding higher DPS than a haste/mastery build on this fight. If anyone would be able to explain the reasoning Mew is coming to this conclusion I'd be glad to hear; as I'm not moving or having much longer than 1s at a time (fading light, hour) off boss I'd think haste would outperform mastery here.

My only assumption is due to increased combo point generation from crit as well as the small extra benefit from 2 and 4 set bonuses. I'm willing to reforge in any way possible to maximize my DPS on this fight, I'm simply curious of this.

Edit: I didn't put this in the Ultraxion thread as this isn't directly related to Ultraxion, but more of patchwerk fights in general it seems.
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Re: Heroic Ultraxion and Optimizing DPS

Post by Serringa » Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:51 pm

Mangle costs less energy than Shred, which makes it considerably easier to energy cap given Berserk, or Bloodlust, or just a string of OOC procs combined with a second or so spent out of the twilight realm. I speculate that this is the main reason for the difference on this fight.

I have reforged from a heavy haste setup into a mastery > haste > crit setup (both are hit/exp capped). My sims showed crit still being weaker.

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Re: Heroic Ultraxion and Optimizing DPS

Post by Paramount » Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:33 am

I rarely use any simulation or formulation platforms to determine the best course of action. I'm old school in that regard. For more years than I care to admit I've spent countless hours on the training dummies with pen and paper. In fact, I would venture to say that those who have dealt more damage than I to the dummies in their lifetimes are remarkably few and far between. Without a doubt I respect the work that's been done with these programs and stay up to date on all the current info regarding the findings of those using them. What can I say? I'm an old fuddy-duddy. Get off my lawn. :?

Over the last few weeks I've been through numerous Glyph setups and reforges attempting to decipher the many questions and ideas I have, including this one. However I have to admit that I have not tried a build with the weights you describe. Of course I'm now intrigued and will spend some time on this tomorrow, but if you don't mind I have a few questions before I begin.

1) What glyphs were used for these sims?
2) Simmed with raid buffs? Tricks? DI? Unholy Frenzy?
3) The approximate item level the sims were ran at?
4) What weapon procs/trinket procs were used for the sim?
5) What fight durations did you use? i.e. 300 seconds, 330 seconds, 359 seconds?
6) How was Hour of Twilight/Fading Twilight modelled into the framework (or more specifically, the way you handle the spells by porting into another realm)?
...and lastly:
7) What stat/reforge priority are you comparing against and what kind of DPS increase/decrease margins are you seeing?

I'm interested to see if I can model actual testing to match your sim results. Without question I'm eager to put this issue to rest within my own mind as well.
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Re: Heroic Ultraxion and Optimizing DPS

Post by Serringa » Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:53 pm

1. I tried rip/zerk/TF, rip/zerk/mangle, and rip/mangle/TF. rip/zerk/mangle won by around 100 DPS over rip/zerk/TF, and rip/mangle/TF was even lower. It's surprising just how little difference mangle made.

2. All raid buffs present. No externals (DI/tricks/etc.) as I'm hardly the spec to get them on heroic Ultraxion!

3. Item level was about 396 equipped when I ran the sims. 4T13.

4. LFR Vial of Shadows, normal Spine trinket. No Kiril.

5. 360 seconds, no variation. (It's really 365, but close enough...)

6. I have not modeled the phasing mechanic. It gives a bit of energy regen downtime, and the loss of some white hits. I also didn't model switching to bear for a couple of GCDs to get Last Defender. I expect that as this just gives more surplus energy it can only devalue haste more, if it does anything at all.

7. My standard reforging was haste > hit/exp > mastery > crit. I tested by swinging 600 haste into mastery or into crit, as this is about the amount I can reforge. In a non-ultraxion fight with rip/zerk/TF these 3 options are within ~25 DPS of each other (haste wins). In ultraxion with mangle glyphed, the haste profile is about 150 DPS behind crit, and crit is about 50 DPS behind mastery.

Overall, these are terribly small gains. They are comparable to the value of the 3 red gems I bought last night, and considerably less than the value of some gear upgrades. I mainly did the sims to justify the observation that I seemed to be energy capped a lot and could therefore use less haste.

And now I'm going to be spending 15 seconds in bear form warming up my glyphed mass regen at the tail end of the fight...

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Re: Heroic Ultraxion and Optimizing DPS

Post by peki » Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:48 pm

i went from almost 3k haste and 1400 mastery to a stacked mastery build for this fight, seems to be doing ok but now we've almost killed it in heroic, I have to do my usual bear thang so Im not sure if i actually gained noticible dps

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