Heart of the Wild and Wrath
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Heart of the Wild and Wrath
Seeing most top parses with 30% or more of their damage coming from wrath. What's going on here?
As a side note, I was able to pull 61k on Feng with a DoC rotation and rank fairly high overall. Our single target seems very competitive, we'll see what happens at higher gear levels but I'm excited.
As a side note, I was able to pull 61k on Feng with a DoC rotation and rank fairly high overall. Our single target seems very competitive, we'll see what happens at higher gear levels but I'm excited.
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
It's the Heart of the Wild Talent. Try it out before it's nerfed!
Raid uses Heroism.
/cast Int Pot
/cast Heart of the Wild
/equip SP Staff
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath (etc)
The burst is silly.
Raid uses Heroism.
/cast Int Pot
/cast Heart of the Wild
/equip SP Staff
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath (etc)
The burst is silly.
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
It seems to be diffrent on all bosses, The only thing i've yet not seen is FoN on highe ranked WoL.
I'm personally switching to tryout DoC when i am more used to the tatics and the encounters because i've not done any raid testing.
/agi pot
/Hero
/Nv/Inc/
/burst down to 10-20 energy then Pop TF and Zerk
/Normal rotation with ravage instead until Incarnation wheres off
Edit: I really can't see a big nerf coming because the talents combined with each other are good in alot of different situations. If anything the talents should be more balanced in the damage output with DoC being slightly better if mastered since it should be rewarded for mastering that rotation. I've not tried DoC out gravely but it seems to be quite complex.
I'm personally switching to tryout DoC when i am more used to the tatics and the encounters because i've not done any raid testing.
If you aim at the highest number of burstDysheki wrote:It's the Heart of the Wild Talent. Try it out before it's nerfed!
Raid uses Heroism.
/cast Int Pot
/cast Heart of the Wild
/equip SP Staff
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath (etc)
The burst is silly.
/agi pot
/Hero
/Nv/Inc/
/burst down to 10-20 energy then Pop TF and Zerk
/Normal rotation with ravage instead until Incarnation wheres off
Edit: I really can't see a big nerf coming because the talents combined with each other are good in alot of different situations. If anything the talents should be more balanced in the damage output with DoC being slightly better if mastered since it should be rewarded for mastering that rotation. I've not tried DoC out gravely but it seems to be quite complex.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
Close. Don't use an Int pot, use an agi pot. Don't forget we have all of our agi converted to SP, and then HotW boots our SP by 50% of our agi.Dysheki wrote:It's the Heart of the Wild Talent. Try it out before it's nerfed!
Raid uses Heroism.
/cast Int Pot
/cast Heart of the Wild
/equip SP Staff
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath
/cast wrath (etc)
The burst is silly.
Pre Pot
HotW
Wrath Spam
HotW ends
Weapon swap to agi
Drain energy
Berserk TF = Win
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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
And yes its broken as hell. We tried to tell them several times during the beta, but now that Raids are putting us very high using this burst, we will get nerf'd really quick. Here is why:
Greg Street was quoted saying how much they didn't like the Savage Roar mechanic in Cata, and they wanted to put some more complication back in the rotation. HotW Wrath spam + Weapon swap is pretty much a contradiction of their stated design goals. You can hork your rotation up and still come out doing way too good. When a Feral druid is doing 30% of their damage with Wrath, it won't stay that way.
Greg Street was quoted saying how much they didn't like the Savage Roar mechanic in Cata, and they wanted to put some more complication back in the rotation. HotW Wrath spam + Weapon swap is pretty much a contradiction of their stated design goals. You can hork your rotation up and still come out doing way too good. When a Feral druid is doing 30% of their damage with Wrath, it won't stay that way.
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
I don't know, the numbers seem balanced to me. Hear me out ...
Most fights we are able to pull off two heart of the wilds, and most fights are 10 min or less. We're generally in HoTW form 15-20% of the time.
Furthermore, we usually have pots and heroism running during these phases, which also increases the perceived damage of HoTW. Finally, there's a ramp up/down time when we need to swap weapons that isn't accounted for in the "30% of top cat damage comes from wrath" since we are in cat form during both those weapon swaps.
So basically, it's a dps cooldown that increases our damage by slightly less than 50% while in the cooldown phase. Compare that to something like say, incarnation or stampede?
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised to see it changed because blizzard absolutely hates weapon swapping in combat, and the mechanics are very clunky, but it's definitely not overpowered from a numbers perspective. Druids also aren't miles ahead of everyone on meters - we're in the top echelon for sure though. The hunters, shadow priest, and I are all within spitting distance of each other (70k-75k on Garaj) on tank & spanks with the limited raiding experience I have so far and we're all more or less equally ranked on wol.
Most fights we are able to pull off two heart of the wilds, and most fights are 10 min or less. We're generally in HoTW form 15-20% of the time.
Furthermore, we usually have pots and heroism running during these phases, which also increases the perceived damage of HoTW. Finally, there's a ramp up/down time when we need to swap weapons that isn't accounted for in the "30% of top cat damage comes from wrath" since we are in cat form during both those weapon swaps.
So basically, it's a dps cooldown that increases our damage by slightly less than 50% while in the cooldown phase. Compare that to something like say, incarnation or stampede?
I mean, I wouldn't be surprised to see it changed because blizzard absolutely hates weapon swapping in combat, and the mechanics are very clunky, but it's definitely not overpowered from a numbers perspective. Druids also aren't miles ahead of everyone on meters - we're in the top echelon for sure though. The hunters, shadow priest, and I are all within spitting distance of each other (70k-75k on Garaj) on tank & spanks with the limited raiding experience I have so far and we're all more or less equally ranked on wol.
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
Oh dear.Tinderhoof wrote:Close. Don't use an Int pot, use an agi pot. Don't forget we have all of our agi converted to SP, and then HotW boots our SP by 50% of our agi.

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Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
Forgot to mention, any on use Agi trinkets make this pretty insane as well. Only problem is nothing will line up with TF/Berserk for the rest of the fight unless you delay.
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
Heart of the Wild doesn't do anything to your spell power, it is merely a flat spell damage bonus.Tinderhoof wrote:HotW boots our SP by 50% of our agi.
The reason you would use Agility pot instead of Int Pot is because you get almost 1.17 agility per 1 agility from the pot, thanks to Mark of the Wild / Heart of the Wild / Leather spec, and 17% more spellpower from the agility is superior to an almost negligible amount of spell crit you get from int.
If you're going to use HotW wrath spam make sure you have trinkets that are either use effects (like Tinder said) or capable of proccing off of wrath, that's a very very big factor to what trinkets are and aren't good for HotW spec.
Last edited by aggixx on Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
I was doing this on Feng last night, worked so well my only real competition in dps was from a boomyTinderhoof wrote: Pre Pot
HotW
Wrath Spam
HotW ends
Weapon swap to agi
Drain energy
Berserk TF = Win

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/f ... e/Bethany/
Lvl 90 Feral Druid - Severity
Lvl 90 Feral Druid - Severity
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
Here's my log from yesterday. I've only figured out how to properly manage hotw on the second boss, which we sadly didn't get to kill (yet):
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g ... 126&e=3489
My char is Maelcum, my fellow cat Restroll did a tad better than me, I totally forgot to use potions on the first boss :/
Anyways, my question is: if the HotW is such a big dps gain, maybe it's worth reforging into crit & haste? On most fights you can use it two times, and even when I use it once it still stands as 20-30% of my dps.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-g ... 126&e=3489
My char is Maelcum, my fellow cat Restroll did a tad better than me, I totally forgot to use potions on the first boss :/
Anyways, my question is: if the HotW is such a big dps gain, maybe it's worth reforging into crit & haste? On most fights you can use it two times, and even when I use it once it still stands as 20-30% of my dps.
Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today - and it won't be you.
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
On my third and final use of a lucky charm thing I finally got something. And it was the Elegon trinket
I was getting so annoyed with the on-crit trinket last night. You could see such a HUGE difference when it did and didn't proc.

Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
Yes, it is. The stat priority is essentially upside down from the DoC one: Haste >= Crit > Mastery > Hit = Exp. However, unlike the DoC stat values, these stats are very far apart. You might be able to see very a noticeable gain from switching your reforges to this. I would definitely NOT recommend capping your hit and expertise, you'll lose a very significant amount of DPS if you do.Viray wrote:Anyways, my question is: if the HotW is such a big dps gain, maybe it's worth reforging into crit & haste? On most fights you can use it two times, and even when I use it once it still stands as 20-30% of my dps.
This is why I tell people not to use the Brewfest trinket =P It's not just bad, it's horrendous. Almost any other trinket you can find is better than it.Dysheki wrote:On my third and final use of a lucky charm thing I finally got something. And it was the Elegon trinketI was getting so annoyed with the on-crit trinket last night. You could see such a HUGE difference when it did and didn't proc.
Also, I got #2 parse on Feng (3rd overall, but #1 is a blood DK, psh!) and a #2 parse on Gara'jal (10th overall atm).
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/lhqe38uxjjkvfbv9/
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
Hotw was just amazing on elegon kill, though I must say another complicated shit added in our arsenal. I wasn't even prepared with macros/keybinds /fap.
T13 http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/lightni ... orcereria/
T14 http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/sylvanas/sorcereria/
STREAMING 19-24 CET http://www.twitch.tv/Sorcereria PW: Django
T14 http://raidbots.com/epeenbot/eu/sylvanas/sorcereria/
STREAMING 19-24 CET http://www.twitch.tv/Sorcereria PW: Django
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
I've got a macro for ya:
Just remember to switch back to your weapon afterwards! 
Code: Select all
#showtooltip
/cast Heart of the Wild
/cast Berserking
/equip [insert caster weapon here]
/use 13
/cancelform
/cast Wrath

Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today - and it won't be you.
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
Curious, during execute phase does anyone think that it would be worthwhile maintaining bleeds if you have a second HotW available and are wrath spamming? Minimizing the time in cat form to just Rake and a 1-2cp FB then resume wrath spam?
Also assuming no weapon swaps during the second HotW.
Also assuming no weapon swaps during the second HotW.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/f ... e/Bethany/
Lvl 90 Feral Druid - Severity
Lvl 90 Feral Druid - Severity
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
I've not personally tested it out but i'd say the damage we do in HotW with a weapon swap is to good to waste the GCD going cat form especially not weapons swapping. However allways when i go HotW i put up strong TF buffed Rip, Rake and Thrash make 3 fast attacks on the Rip so it is extended. So i have them ticking in the beginning of HotW.Bethany wrote:Curious, during execute phase does anyone think that it would be worthwhile maintaining bleeds if you have a second HotW available and are wrath spamming? Minimizing the time in cat form to just Rake and a 1-2cp FB then resume wrath spam?
Also assuming no weapon swaps during the second HotW.

Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
HotW is fantastic. Last night on Garajal I had 65k DPS with it, and that's on a fight where you can only use it once. (6 minute hard enrage timer). I'm in love <3
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
People are posting on the forums about a 30% nerf to HotW damage. Haven't tested, still locked out from authentication probs their fixing.
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
I've not seen HotW going down i had a 650k crit on Feng unluckly we didn't down him but that is another story.
Am i the only one seeing low Ferocious bite hits around 32k and crits being almost 4 times higher 5cps ofc.
Am i the only one seeing low Ferocious bite hits around 32k and crits being almost 4 times higher 5cps ofc.

Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
Just tested.
Self buffed, no food, no flask but with a pre-pot.
30 seconds of HotW and wrath spam:
1st test
Avg Hit : 183.5k
Max Hit: 382.4K
2nd test
Avg Hit: 191.6k
Max Hit: 432.7k
Seems about on par with what I was getting pre-restart. I was getting an average of about 192-195 per hit before but during both of these quick tests i just did I only critted once each time so that's probably the difference.
Self buffed, no food, no flask but with a pre-pot.
30 seconds of HotW and wrath spam:
1st test
Avg Hit : 183.5k
Max Hit: 382.4K
2nd test
Avg Hit: 191.6k
Max Hit: 432.7k
Seems about on par with what I was getting pre-restart. I was getting an average of about 192-195 per hit before but during both of these quick tests i just did I only critted once each time so that's probably the difference.
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
Here's my log form yesterday's Spirit Kings kill:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r1sd ... 806&e=1362
I've reforged for testing into Haste, then a bit of Crit - and it worked great. I'd do even better if I wasn't killed by a two DK's who failed with a mechanics a bit, killing 7 chars on the quasi-MC stage of the Meng the Demented
. Overall, I was dead for about 40s so I guess that'd make a huge difference.
I was switching my weapon to a 463 ilvl spellcaster staff, I used a prepot IIRC. One problem is I don't think the Darkmoon trinket can proc from spells, which is a shame.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r1sd ... 806&e=1362
I've reforged for testing into Haste, then a bit of Crit - and it worked great. I'd do even better if I wasn't killed by a two DK's who failed with a mechanics a bit, killing 7 chars on the quasi-MC stage of the Meng the Demented

I was switching my weapon to a 463 ilvl spellcaster staff, I used a prepot IIRC. One problem is I don't think the Darkmoon trinket can proc from spells, which is a shame.
Someday, someone will best me. But it won't be today - and it won't be you.
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
Nice job Viray. Here's mine:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fi8y ... 511&e=2081
Reforged according to Agixx' T14H profile. 460 ilevel.
I'm so in love with my Druid right now <3
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/fi8y ... 511&e=2081
Reforged according to Agixx' T14H profile. 460 ilevel.
I'm so in love with my Druid right now <3
Re: Heart of the Wild and Wrath
How can you be inlove with being carried by wrath...
i absolutely hate it, and hope they nerf it asap. It pretty much doesnt matter any more how bad you are at keeping up bleeds, as long as you got a decent spelldamage weapon and can spam wrath...
Your logs are pretty bad, autoattack damage higher than bleeds? lol
it's only wrath that pushes you up on the damage meters, and there's zero skill involved with that.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4 ... 918&e=5187 without having to lower myself to using wrath...

/endrant
i absolutely hate it, and hope they nerf it asap. It pretty much doesnt matter any more how bad you are at keeping up bleeds, as long as you got a decent spelldamage weapon and can spam wrath...
Your logs are pretty bad, autoattack damage higher than bleeds? lol
it's only wrath that pushes you up on the damage meters, and there's zero skill involved with that.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4 ... 918&e=5187 without having to lower myself to using wrath...

/endrant